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Can't insert section after endnotes

asked 2020-09-28 04:32:25 +0200

Gustavo Pinent gravatar image

updated 2020-09-28 04:57:51 +0200

Hi! I did my work in several sections. The section "Text" is the last one and there is a lot of endnotes that are collected at the end of this section. So far, so good! Now I have to add an Appendix (annex) after those endnotes. I can add it, but nothing changes... The page style is still defined as Endnote, I tried to add a page break but won't work, not inside the Endnotes nor inside the new section, a paragraph break is added instead. Also, in the new section created, I tried to change the page-style by right-click in the name associated to change it (in the bottom bar), and in the page styles menu (double-click) but the style does not actually changes, it remains Endnote style.

The manual page break is not available (gray), coherent with Endnote style. Problem is, I can't change the style of the section inserted after Endnotes, kinda lost...

Many kinds of documents are organized like this. Books have endnotes at the end of each chapter, not only at the end of the whole document, thought it must have a way of doing this... how?

Edit: I tried by defining a heading style to the title with page break with different page style. The page won't break and the style remains the same. Wondering if it is a real bug... New title with heading paragraph style The page break definition

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answered 2020-09-28 14:03:36 +0200

ajlittoz gravatar image

In Writer, endnotes are what they say: the last bit of text in a document. Consequently, you can't add anything after it if this is not a part of the last note. But the endnote engine will not let you insert a page break.

The workaround is to use sections.

WARNING! In Writer, a "section" is not a part of a book as we commonly use the word. A Writer section is a "sub-area" in a sequence of pages controlled by a single page style with properties different from the page style. The main impacted properties are number of columns, margin (through the use of indents) and location of notes.

This does not conflict with existing sections because sections can be nested.

I assume that your book has the following outline:

  • cover
  • legalese and/or dedication (without endnotes for simplicity, may have footnotes)
  • TOC
  • chapters with endnotes
  • endnotes
  • appendices

To restructure your document (however, make a backup copy before proceeding in case something goes wrong or you make a mistake), select the chapters excluding the present endnotes.

Insert>Section and go to Footnotes/Endnotes tab.

Check Collect at end of section in Endnotes.

Optionally adjust other parameters and OK

In case your document ends inside the section (no text after the notes yet), put the cursor at the very last position of the text (not in the endnotes) and Alt+Return: this creates an empty paragraph after the section.

Your endnotes are displayed the same as footnotes at the end of the section. You'll need to edit a bit your document to have "traditional" endnotes. Put the cursor at the end of the text in the section and hit Return to create a new empty paragraph inside the section. Either you style this paragraph with an ad-hoc style or you Format>Paragraph to attach a page break to Endnotes page style. This "empty" paragraph may be used to give a heading to the Endnotes, eventually with a Heading n style so that the heading is also entered into the TOC or, if you prefer no heading, make it as small as possible to make it as inconspicuous as possible (spacing above and below set to 0 and font size 2pt).

The empty paragraph after the section is the starting point for your appendices. Do there whatever you like.

To show the community your question has been answered, click the ✓ next to the correct answer, and "upvote" by clicking on the ^ arrow of any helpful answers. These are the mechanisms for communicating the quality of the Q&A on this site. Thanks!

In case you need clarification, edit your question (not an answer which is reserved for solutions) or comment the relevant answer.

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I am working on this. Problem is some difficulties in some easy necessary tasks as adding a section at the end. Writer is inserting inside the last instead of after, so the problem persist. Also, I converted endnotes to footnotes so I can manage sections. I did an experience in a new file and Writer will put endnotes after all sections no matter what. This might result in a dead end. But I will still try to avoid this because seems more like a bug than a limitation.

Gustavo Pinent gravatar imageGustavo Pinent ( 2020-09-28 18:33:49 +0200 )edit

Have you correctly configured the outermost (in case you already use sections) section? This is the only one which should collect the endnotes.

I experimented while answering and it works. The only tricky part is to create the extra part after the section for the appendices.

ajlittoz gravatar imageajlittoz ( 2020-09-28 18:49:45 +0200 )edit

Yeah it works! But not using Writer, I had to open the content.xml inside de odt bundle with BBEdit (pure text editor). I had to locate the section node and move it manually to the end, right before the text node closing. So, you are right but not always can be done with Writer. In my opinion, sections is a powerful tool and needs some advanced tools, like selecting and moving the whole section. Might seem redundant, but it's useful when things don't happens as expected - just a suggestion for developers...

Gustavo Pinent gravatar imageGustavo Pinent ( 2020-09-28 19:22:17 +0200 )edit

I did everything with Writer but, as I said, adding the extra paragraph at the end outside the section gets tricky when you have endnotes.

ajlittoz gravatar imageajlittoz ( 2020-09-28 19:40:19 +0200 )edit

In Writer, endnotes are what they say: the last bit of text in a document.<<

That is evidently what it does, but that does not implement the semantics of the standard nor of its own settings, both of which provide for the option of collecting endnotes at the end of the section. This has no meaning if one is not able to follow with another section. Another well-behaved, perfectly ordinary section in which page breaks works, etc.

Writer is broken. Writer should be fixed.

The use cases that are broken by this defect are perfectly legitimate and include chapter works where notes should be at the end of the chapter, and monographs where an index should follow endnotes.

AFAICT neither of these is properly supported by Writer, because, even if you manage to jam in a section after the end notes, nothing works right from that point, e.g ...(plus)

spacecat56 gravatar imagespacecat56 ( 2021-02-17 17:28:54 +0200 )edit

No need to fix Writer, the feature works perfectly.

Notes can be collected at end of section and anything can follow the section: another chapter, another section, a page break, absolutely anything.

Your problem is a vocabulary one. I don't know what your background is. I also don't see what you mean about the semantics of the "standard" (which one?). You should read the Writer Guide for definitions.

A Writer section is a specifically delimited subpart of a document created with Insert>Section. It behaves like an independent subdocument having its own foot- and endnotes, distinct from those of the main document flow if you configure them so.

A section is not the same thing in M$ Word nor in common language where it is roughly equivalent to a chapter or subchapter.

Document formatting and typography rely on precise definitions; read those for Writer and everything will clear.

ajlittoz gravatar imageajlittoz ( 2021-02-17 18:35:57 +0200 )edit

You are describing what SHOULD happens, but it does not (considering the context of my question). I did a lot of monograph standardization using both Word and Writer and I personally consider the way of Writer better than Word, more sophisticated, but it has some bugs that are preventing us from making a professional work. I still have to pay for Word, too bad...

Gustavo Pinent gravatar imageGustavo Pinent ( 2021-02-17 21:28:40 +0200 )edit

@Gustavo Pinent: look at the sample file I attached to my comment of @spacecat56's below @Zizi64's answer if you're in same context. Otherwise, I'm ready to study your specific problem in private.

ajlittoz gravatar imageajlittoz ( 2021-02-18 07:44:05 +0200 )edit
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answered 2020-09-28 06:37:44 +0200

Zizi64 gravatar image

In my opinion: as you can not insert a content after the footnote on a Page (except the Footer content) - it will be located on the next page -, so you can not insert content after ENDnote in a Document (except the Footer content). And in this case there is not NEXT page. The bottom af the last page _is_ the bottom of the last page.

My only one workaround tip: Use a different page style for the last page, and put the desired content into the header of the Page Style. It is not the best solution if a large Endnotes list flows to the next page.

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Many document standards have content after endnotes, as scientific articles (mine). So we must work like this. Writer must work this way, we just don't know how yet, and there is some bugs around...

Gustavo Pinent gravatar imageGustavo Pinent ( 2020-09-28 18:35:52 +0200 )edit

No, sorry, Writer is simply wrong in this behavior. The semantics of the standard are self-evident, in defining the option of placing endnotes at end of "section" or end of "document".

The use cases, are entirely sensible and entirely conventional. In a chapter work, one may place the notes at the end of each chapter. In a monograph, one may include both endnotes and an index; the conventional choice is to put the index last, after the endnotes.

Writer implements neither the semantics of the standard nor the conventions of document formatting.

Writer should be fixed.

And I hope you see good reason here to please revisit your opinion.

spacecat56 gravatar imagespacecat56 ( 2021-02-17 17:16:03 +0200 )edit

No, you are wrong. Writer is a very powerful tool and you must first understand its base principles.

You can place end notes "at end of section", provided you created a section. If you have no section in your document, well, end notes will be the last object in it. Inside a section, end notes remain the last object, but you can add other material after the section.

See this example: C:\fakepath\AskLOSectionEndNotes.odt

Every word is important, all the most in a "standard". So make a difference between a section and the document. Note also that "section" has a specific precise technical definition in Writer.

ajlittoz gravatar imageajlittoz ( 2021-02-17 18:46:22 +0200 )edit
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Asked: 2020-09-28 04:32:25 +0200

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Last updated: Sep 28 '20