# Writer: can both paragraph numbering and list numbering be active at the same time?

I'm really confused about how to best use paragraph numbering. Is there a better help or tutorial than the manual found in the offline help here (and as shown below)? It isn't helpful to me.

I can see that both paragraph styles AND styles for numbered lists can set numbering attributes, e.g. left/right alignment. But each has it's own list of styles.

Add to this confusion appears to be a bug, that only updates text from a style edit when you change it to some other style, then back to what it was.

Also, if I have a list of paragraphs, how do I tell them all to be ONE specific list, because it seems like they can get broken into two lists?

I'm just basically trying to type up a list of paragraphs which are given numbers and sub-numbers.

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(Remark: your link point to a "moved or deleted page", therefore I can't tell if my answer will be "better".)

I suppose that "paragraph numbering" in your question is a synonym for "chapter numbering".

Basically, chapters and sub-chapters, when numbered, constitute a list. The differences in chapter numbering vs. traditional lists are:

• the counter, aka. list style is an internal one called Outline Numbering which is not listed in the style sidepane (list styles button) and can be managed only through Tools>Chapter Numbering
• there is one paragraph style per level (Heading n) instead of a single one
• level change is not accomplished with Tab key but by selecting another Heading n paragraph style
• Heading n paragraphs are intended to end up in a TOC and are associated to an "outline level" (not Body text)

According to these properties, use Heading n for document structuring and organising. Use lists when you have an enumeration or an ordered procedure.

Any paragraph style may be turned into a style for formatting list, e.g. the various List n and Numbering n.

For that, the paragraph style(s) must be associated with a counter, including the mentioned built-in one which have no counter by default.

The counter is defined by a (badly named) list style. Every list style define a separate counter (and you can add your own custom styles if you run short of counters, as can be done in any style family). You associate the counter in the paragraph style Outline & Numbering tab with the drop-down menu Numbering style. This means the list style must be created first in case you provide your custom one.

The paragraph style controls how list item text is formatted (however, don't play with right indent, this does not work -- bug or restriction, I don't know). The "list" style controls the structure and aspect of the numbering.

• Several paragraph styles may share the same counter. In this case they are members of the same logical list, though formatting of item text body will differ depending on paragraph style.

• The same paragraph style may be used for formatting two (or more) occurrences of disjoint enumerations. You only need to Format>Lists>Restart Numbering on the first item in the second occurrence.

• Two occurrences of the paragraph style will form a continued list if no item is marked as Format>Lists>Restart Numbering. The flag must be removed with the menu if you notice a restart somewhere. Though this flag is akin to direct formatting, it can't be removed with Format>Clear direct formatting.

You can experiment on lists with toolbar buttons [Shift+]F12, but this is harder to control:

• it is "sticky" direct formatting and, as usual, causes a lot of trouble in the end
• the implicit counter is not defined by a named list style but by Format>Bullets & Numbering

For a polished, production-quality document, play only with styles. Most important, don't ...

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I edited my q to include a snapshot of the help, which is the offline help. Sorry for the confusion. Thanks for the info about Chapter Numbering. I was completely unaware of it and will save that for another day's work. Also thanks for your editing tips about sharing counters, styles, restarting and director formatting. Little by little I am seeing how this works, but still I have not found a tutorial or manual which explains this which was my first Q. By the time I use this next time I might have forgotten what you told me, so prefer to find primary sources of info when I can. Thank you again very much for your extended answer. Much is more clear now.

( 2019-05-28 22:01:41 +0200 )edit

Note to self: ... So there are 3 ways to number things. That would be the first line of a good tutorial I think. Chapter numbering, list numbering, and style numbering.

( 2019-05-28 22:07:38 +0200 )edit

No, only two: headings (with special intent of chapter structuring) and lists. Numbering is always applied through style. Toolbar buttons do it with a form of direct formatting (with all the unfortunate consequences). The "right" procedure is to customise a paragraph style in its Outline & Numbering tab Numbering style dropdown menu.

If you want complete control on your lists, use only custom styles.

( 2019-05-28 22:40:58 +0200 )edit