Page styles don't stick

I am trying to apply a page style and it won’t stick. As you can see from the image, I created a page style called Chapter Page, which is supposed to suppress the header chapter title. I click on it, double click on it but it won’t get applied.

I have also tried on the previous page to specify Chapter Page as the next style, but while it won’t do that it will apply it to the current page, and all the pages in that chapter, which is the exact opposite of what I want.

At one point there was a version of this book I saved as .docx, but now it is back to .odt. I don’t know if that has anything to do with it but the behavior is counterintuitive. Shouldn’t I expect when I click or double click on Chapter Page that the style would be immediately applied?

I got it to work for the previous chapters but it seems stuck on this one.

I am using the latest version of LibreOffice on a Mac.

I am using the latest version of LibreOffice on a Mac.

Why do so many people asking questions here think, that the phrase latest version is a more definite statement than to write 6.3.4.2 or 6.2.8.2?

I can’t speak to that, but I am using version 6.3.3.2 which when I check for updates says it is the latest version.

That’s why I’m asking 6.3.3.2 isn’t the latest for the 6.3 series of releases (fresh). Have a look at Download LibreOffice | LibreOffice - Free Office Suite - Based on OpenOffice - Compatible with Microsoft. The update check is always some days / weeks "behind* the real release dates of new releases on the website. So using “latest” isn’t a statement about what is really installed (besides the fact that there are always 2 latest release: one for the fresh series of releases (now: 6.3 - latest 6.3.4.2) and a second for the still series of releases (now: 6.2 - latest 6.2.8.2))

I am now on 6.3.4.2 but the problem remains.

Page styles are not just formatting instructions like bold or italics, meaning their effect is not local where the cursor is located. They affect the whole text flow because pages do not exist per se. They are allocated on demand to accommodate the volume of the text flow. A page style effect extend from a “special” page break to the next “special” page break. These “special” page breaks define blocks of identically formatted pages (or divide the global text flow into separately formattable segments).

(I define a “special” page break here as a manually inserted page break requesting a change of page style.)

A “special” page break also occurs at end of page when the page style contains a Next style attribute.

The standard behaviour of double clicking a page style is to assign the page style to the current segment; therefore it applies to the first page of the segment and all following ones, eventually taking into account the Next attribute.

This is for theory. Your case may be more complex.

Your document was once .docx. M$ Word has no notion of page style (and of any style but paragraph style). This means Writer has to translate page styles, character styles, etc. into elements Word could understand to approximate the original formatting. Usually this results in creating individual page formatting. When stored back in .odt, you keep originally one page style per page. Editing complicates matters because extending a page does so with the same page style (standard Writer behaviour). Consequently, you no longer know the real extent of a page style. It is a complete mess.

Restoring things to a neat state is rather complicated because the style dictionary has been polluted by the .odt.docx.odt conversions. Also it added many directed formattings and created used-only-once character styles.

Usually, an elaborate and maintained document (I think a 315-page one belongs in this category) relies on a handful of paragraph styles, another handful of character styles and 4-5 page styles. I’d then suggest to create a new empty document where you define/customise the styles you need (better, for future work, do that inside a template). Copy the text and paste it special (Ctrl+Shift+V) as unformatted text. After that, apply the paragraph styles. If you were smart with the paragraph styles Text Flow properties, you should need to force page styles only 1-2 times in the document (after the preface to enter the chapters and after the chapters to enter the index). You’ll also have to reenter character styles (Emphasis = usually italics, Strong emphasis = usually bold, etc.) because they are wiped out by the special paste. This is the longest part of the task.

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A “special” page break also occurs at end of page when the page style contains a Next style attribute

This should not be defined like that. A “special” page break should be some break with explicit page style change (manual or in paragraph style or the very first in the document …); they actually divide the document to segments - each of them following page assignment rules defined in the assigned page style; each page style has Next style attribute - and thus both technically, and logically, having Next style same as this style is just one of possible values there. So assigning a page style to a segment defined a sequence of pages with (possibly identical) styles.

Just nitpicking of course - but it is rather fundamental thing IMO, so thought worth mentioning.

@mikekaganski: it is quite difficult to make people understand the logic behind the various style categories when they are so estranged in the competition behaviour (without neat style principles) that this (wrong IMHO) approach now qualifies “intuitive”. I may have oversimplified the description, but it is very important to emphasise that a page assignment may have (and usually has) an effect beyond the current page.

New users accept that a formatting applies to a paragraph in its entiirety (because paragraph limits are evident) but often fail to recognise the same with pages because segment limits are less easily visible.

I agree with you that the style machinery is the distinctive feature in Writer. Unfortunately, available documentation does not insist enough on styles other than paragraph and character.

Thanks. The proposed solution is a lot of work with 315 pages and hundreds of embedded illustrations but it may come to this not to mentioned indexed entries. It would be nice to know these implications before saving to .docx. Is there a way to hack a .odt file with a text editor to remove the offending markup?

I don’t think you can. .odt.docx involves loss of information, then .docx.odt adds a real mess in an attempt to coerce Word-internal formatting into Writer style concepts. If you could put your hand on an old .odt version, it might be less fuss to display the outdated and newest versions side by side and compare them to update the .odt-formatted one.

A general rule with computer is: information is best saved in native format. This is true for all applications (Word should be saved as .docx and Writer as .odt). Only at the end of the job, can a document be translated for transmission, not for editing, to someone else. Also, you should also transmit a reference for the recipient to check (e.g. a PDF version for a Writer document).