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Do styles behave as expected?

asked 2020-03-26 22:16:34 +0200

likivik gravatar image

1. It is currently impossible to change page's "page style" by double clicking in side menu for example.

  • Intuitively (for a newish user) it seems like it should change page's "page style". Is there a philosophical (works for intended usecases) issue with it or just a technical one (not implemented)? Currently, only reliable way I found to apply the desired "page style" is to insert manual break and select desired "page style" for the next page there (which is a convoluted way and does need lots of mind numbing fiddling to get just right).

2. Every "page style" has a "next style" (as in modify->organization tab)

  • Why does it have to have it? It seems like it's interfering with how a user might want to structure the file.
  • If it doesn't limit flexibility, than it at least as makes the process very complicated. (ex.: to create chains of differently styled pages). Yes there is a manual break workaround, but it _is_ a workaround. So, could "next style" for pages be optional?

Any answers, guidance, directions are much appreciated! Please forgive my lack of knowledge on the subject, I'm struggling to find a good resource to learn more about document formats and their structure.

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ebot gravatar imageebot ( 2020-03-26 22:22:46 +0200 )edit

Quoting @: "So, could "next style" for pages be optional?"
What style do you think should be applied as the next style if no next style is defined?
You might better suggest to create an option like Set this style explicitly with hard page break. Even the same page style inserted this way would break the sequence afflicted in one go by a change of the style.
For me the doubleclick in the sidebar works fine. What do you mean by "currently"? Are you riding an ill horse (buggy version)?
Simply replace the term "Page style" by "Pagesequence style" in your mind. You probably will understand the working of page styles even better than.
Anyway, you can only change the page style for a sequence of layout-pages limited above and below either by start/end of document's text or by a hard pagebreak setting the new the pagestyle explicitly.
Inserting ...(more)

Lupp gravatar imageLupp ( 2020-03-26 22:44:14 +0200 )edit

In addition to ebot's link, read this tutorial and this tutorial.

A general remark: styles (like any part of software) should not behave as expected or as unexpected (immediate questions: expected by who? why?), this is a wrong approach. They should behave as designed, thus (again, like with part of software), read manuals.

If it doesn't limit flexibility, than it at least as makes the process very complicated

It does enhance the flexibility, that is why it is somewhat complicated. Complexity and flexibility go hand-by-hand.

gabix gravatar imagegabix ( 2020-03-27 10:49:26 +0200 )edit

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answered 2020-03-27 08:23:50 +0200

updated 2020-03-27 09:10:57 +0200

1. It is currently impossible to change page's "page style" by double clicking in side menu for example.

Intuitively (for a newish user) it seems like it should change page's "page style". Is there a philosophical (works for intended usecases) issue with it or just a technical one (not implemented)? Currently, only reliable way I found to apply the desired "page style" is to insert manual break and select desired "page style" for the next page there (which is a convoluted way and does need lots of mind numbing fiddling to get just right).

There is the principal "philosophical" idea that must be understood when working with text document: a document consists of only two things: its body text, and this text's formatting. Whatever formatting you apply, it's something that applies to (a portion of) body text.

In case of pages and their appearance, this is the greatest problem for users to realize that pages are also just a kind of formatting of part of text, not something independent. So it's very important to realize how page styles relate to text.

As with any styles, page styles are designed to minimize manual intervention. As such, page styles are not meant to require manual application to each created page, but rather to allow application to some big ranges of text, so that inside that range, the pages are created the controlled and predictable way. These ranges of text are delimited by paragraphs that include a specific property "page break with page style" in them. A text like

1 >>> a paragraph with page break with page style
2 another paragraph
3 third paragraph
4 fourth paragraph
...
24 twenty-fourth paragraph
25 >>> another paragraph with page break with page style
26 twenty-sixth paragraph
...

defines two ranges of page style application: one starting at first paragraph, and another starting at twenty-fifth one. Whenever your cursor is anywhere inside paragraphs 1 to 24, when you double-click a page style on the styles sidebar, you are working with that range, and apply the style to the first paragraph of that range (not to "current page", because "page" is not text, and as we learned, we only apply formatting to text!). A paragraph with a page break with a page style means that when this paragraph starts, a new page will be automatically created, and it will be as this page style defines it; part of that definition is "next style", which means that when following text will not fit to the page anymore, and another page must be automatically created, this "next style" will be used to define what that new page will look like. The second page's style will also have its own "next style", defining third page's look (when third page becomes necessary), and so on. (Consider different possible automatic sequences, like "cover page - title page - general pages..." or "first page - right page - left page - right page - ...", that don't require manual intervention, and do the ... (more)

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answered 2020-03-27 01:22:35 +0200

Lupp gravatar image

Quoting the subject: "Do {page} styles behave as expected?"
I think so.

As already partly mentioned in my comment on the question, there isn't something like a "page object", but pages are created on the fly when the layout for screen display or for printing is needed. The insertion of a hard page break doesn't create one new page, but a new sequence of pages that may get a different page style later if the respective property (explicit page style) was set when the break was inserted. This is the reasonable way to do it, because most longer documents have long sequences of equally formatted pages, and only few and short sequences of differently formatted pages. In addition there may be certain specialized page styles like 'left', 'right', 'first of new chapter' where the definition of a 'next style' is substantial.

What if the new sequence was created without an explicit assignment of a page style, but later this is regretted?

Got to the first paragraph behind the hard page break.
Select >Paragraph>Paragraph from its context menu. (Do NOT edit the paragraph style!)
Select the tab Text Flow.
Go to >>Breaks and adjust the settings there as needed.
OK

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Out of interest I also sketched a "macro" for explicitPageBreak meaning a page break which doesn't change the page style, but explicitly assigns the previous style also to the new sequence, and by this allows a future change by clicking with effect for the new sequence only.
If you are interestd you can get it, of course. Functionally it implements the kind of independence you missed as far as I understood.

Lupp gravatar imageLupp ( 2020-03-27 01:28:37 +0200 )edit
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Asked: 2020-03-26 22:16:34 +0200

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Last updated: Mar 27