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Changing ordinary header to first page header

asked 2020-08-02 16:12:03 +0200

Adam_Kraft gravatar image

updated 2020-08-05 05:59:12 +0200

Update: I think I figured out the reason I was having so much trouble. I think the secret lies in applying page breaks. When I applied manual page breaks (insert -> more breaks -> manual breaks) there was a "style" box I didn't notice. Selecting the page style from that box seemed to make a difference. I haven't totally figured it out, but that seems to be what I needed.

I'm using a pre-formated template that already has headers, footers, page breaks, etc. applied. However, I want to start a chapter of my book on one page farther than the template has it formatted for. This means having a different header on the new chapter page, so I can leave it blank, while having my name and book title on subsequent pages in the chapter.

I've inserted a page break, but even when I do this, the header is still labeled as "right page header, where the page before (where the chapter originally started as per the template) is labeled as "first page header."

I've tried playing around with page styles, searching the help documents, and everything, and for the life of me I can't figure out how to change this.I've included a screenshot below that I hope will help illustrate the problem.

I want that blue part where it says "right page header" to instead say "first page header" so I can delete "book title" from that page while having it be present on the other pages.

Thanks! image description

Edit: Here's the original template. As everyone theorized, it is MS Word. For the most part, everything seemed to translate pretty well into Libre, but not the headings, I guess. I hope this uploads correctly. C:\fakepath\6 x 9 in.docx

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Not enough information about the template to answer.

What are the properties of the page style(s) used for the chapter? Namely, what are the options enabled in the Header tab? Is the Next Style attribute specifically set to another page style in the Organizer tab? If this does not display the same name, repeat the report for all styles making the chain.

Which paragraph style is used for your chapter title? If it isn't one of the Heading n family, what are the text flow properties of, at least, Heading 1?

Note: you seem to use incorrectly Writer because you create your vertical spacing with empty paragraphs. I therefore bet you also apply direct formatting everywhere, which defeats any automation implemented in the template.

Edit your question to provide this additional information, making clear where you add it (e.g. after an EDIT sub-title). Double Return cause a ...(more)

ajlittoz gravatar imageajlittoz ( 2020-08-02 16:39:52 +0200 )edit

Either you are using a template which was created for MS Word, or you are saving your document as a Word file. This fails with page setup automation because Writer depends on page styles for this, and Word (the application as well as its native storage format) does not have any provision for page styles.

The translations between Word context and Writer context insert static replacements for the automation elements, which may look fine until you change something which alters page flow. It will be a mess to edit.

  • Keep within Writer context to have a clean file to work with.
  • If you need more assistance, explain what page layout you need (description, reasoning, etc). E.g.:
    • Multiple pages for front matter, with page numbers in roman numerals in the footer.
    • Chapters have titles.
    • Each chapter starts on a new page, with chapter title 1/3 down on the page ...
(more)
keme gravatar imagekeme ( 2020-08-03 00:26:09 +0200 )edit

We do not have the template, and my guess is that for Writer it is rubbish anyway. That is one reason why your explanation, which is relative to said template, is difficult to follow. When we do not have the template itself, only a picture and a description of how it does not work, it does not make the task easier.

An explanation of objectives, not dependent on "unknown variables" like application or template references, makes it easier for us. Attaching the template file (by editing your question) may also be of some use. Help us to help you!

keme gravatar imagekeme ( 2020-08-03 00:47:48 +0200 )edit

Edited question to divide into paragraphs, for readability.

Note that here you must have two consecutive line breaks in the editor pane to make a paragraph break in the output.

keme gravatar imagekeme ( 2020-08-03 06:17:14 +0200 )edit

Update: I think I figured out the reason I was having so much trouble. I think the secret lies in applying page breaks. When I applied manual page breaks (insert -> more breaks -> manual breaks) there was a "style" box I didn't notice. Selecting the page style from that box seemed to make a difference. I haven't totally figured it out, but that seems to be what I needed.

Yes. Also, if you change to odt format when working in writer you can assign the "page break with other page style" to the Heading 1 paragraph style. (You can do essentially the same in Word through similar operations.)

To save this automated behavior you need to use the "native" storage format of .odt in Writer. You could do a similar streamlining in Word, and would then probably need to use .docx to save that. Failing that, the ...(more)

keme gravatar imagekeme ( 2020-08-05 06:53:57 +0200 )edit

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answered 2020-08-03 10:09:42 +0200

ajlittoz gravatar image

I looked at the .docx document you attached.

  • It is an ordinary document (as notified by extension .docx) with dummy content

    With this statement, I mean is not a template as per LO Writer specification. Writer templates are "protected" against user changes. When you double-click on one or use File>New>Template, a new document is created as a "copy" of the template. Thus, File>Save does not overwrite the template.

  • It is a piece of rubbish, you can as well throw it away

    Most of formatted is manual (direct formatting in LO parlance). Vertical spacing is made with multiple empty paragraphs, creating a tight dependence on font metrics. Nearly all page breaks are manual.

    Only 5 paragraph styles are defined: CSP - xxx plus Balloon Text. The CSP style cover chapter titles and chapter body (with a variant for the first paragraph). CSP - Front Matter Body Text is used only in the "Acknowledgements" part. All the rest (cover and subsequent pages) are manually formatted.

    The table of contents is a manual table needing manual entry while, even in Word, there are automated mechanisms for that.

    As a result, formatting a book with sich a "template" is a nightmare: no consistency, no automation, no central editing facility.

  • Conversion from M$ format adds its lot

    Since M$ format only knows on paragraph styles (and in this "template" they are not used completely as they should), opening the document in LO Writer causes conversion to occur. Writer tries its best to translate repetitive patterns into ODF elements. For example, chapters use two different page styles: one for the first page, one for the running pages. In the end, you get twice as many unique page styles as you have chapters, while two carefully crafted page styles would be enough for your needs.

    Strangely enough, Writer succeeded in creating five character styles with sensible names but only one (page number) is really used.

    As already mentioned by @keme, using a Word document as a basis for a Writer document (and worse, if everything is stored in .doc(x) format) is prone to make your author job a mess and editing a nightmare.

The best thing you can do is to use the attached document as a model for the look and feel of the target document and to design yourself a Writer template (extension .ott) with a full collection of paragraph, character and page styles.

Writer offers built-in paragraph styles Heading n for chapter numbering. You can associate a page break with Heading 1. Heading 1 may have a spacing of its own above and under it, eliminating the ugly empty paragraphs used to achieve vertical position and separation of the chapter title. The page styles for chapters (first page and running pages) can have a header whose content can be automatically generated with fields, such as book title (providing it has been entered in File>Properties), chapter name, page number, …

The first page style may even be constrained to ... (more)

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Well, thanks for all the help, everyone. The good news is that, after tinkering around with it, I finally got it to do what I wanted. It wasn't easy, though. I guess the takeaway here is that, in the end, it's best to do as ajlittoz suggested and use the original template as sort of a guide for what to do with LO.

Adam_Kraft gravatar imageAdam_Kraft ( 2020-08-03 14:38:14 +0200 )edit
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Asked: 2020-08-02 16:12:03 +0200

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Last updated: Aug 05