Automatic numbering gone wrong .... HELP!

[jumleguf]

I have a huge problem with some .docx documents containing rows of english text, plus translations in an opposite column. The rows and lines of text are identified by individual numbers (automatically), and somehow, for reasons I’m not clever enough to realize, these numbers are starting to turn out differently in my document, compared with how my client and their translators see them.
Below are links for 2 screenshots, which illustrate what I’m talking about:

This first image is a PDF (generated by my client), which shows the document with correct numbering in the column to the far left.

The second image is the exact same document, but in the original .docx version, as seen in my LibreOffice, where the numbering suddenly changes.

It appears to be connected to a number of extra cells in a column to the right, which suddenly have an impact on the numbering scheme in the far left column.
This subsequently changes the numbering further down in the document, which is quite fatal, as the numbering is supposed to provide a unique identification of individual lines in a longer text (translations, which are to be narrated and put into an animated film, hopefully in the right places).

I never experienced this problem before, and previously used Apache OpenOffice, which I tried again, but still the same result.
Furthermore, I tried FreeOffice, where the numbering seemed to work, but then ended abruptly after 99 (possibly a limitation of the free version).

Which parameters are related to this, and how do I tweak them to make this work correctly?
Any help will be deeply appreciated!! Thanx in advance!

[ajlittoz]

How do you expect to get help? Screenshots tell absolutely nothing about the structure and styling of the document. Note that you are requiring help about a .docx document which an alien format for Writer. Many problems occur simply because of the conversion.

How is the auto-numbering done? Is it part of chapter numbering or some list? How are the paragraphs styled? Same question about cell content. Note that using chapter numbering inside tables sometimes play weird tricks because of the order in which Writer meets the cells (which may not be visual order).

Mention your OS name and LO version.

Simplest thing: attach a 3-pages max sample document with the issue after anonymising its content if needed. To do so, edit your question, scroll to bottom, press Enter twice and use the paperclip tool.

Please do not use Add Answer but edit your original question to enhance the details of your question (answers are reserved for solutions to a problem on this Q&A site).

[ajlittoz]

@Astur: nothing gets numbered unless there is some support data. The issue is in the way the document has been styled/formatted. I suspect a huge mess in this area, probably a fully direct formatting document (as usual, als).

[ajlittoz]

I didn’t but now I watched it. It confirms my suspicion. You used direct formatting. It does not happen when cells are formatted with styles. Either Heading n or Numbering 1 give the expected results. But, that said, I don’t know how it is interpreted in Word.

Direct formatting is the root of every evil. The golden rule is: styles, styles and, if don’t agree, styles.

[ajlittoz]

@Astur: “Writer should always number like xxx does”. No. Writer has defined a very structured way of composing a document which is reliable and predictable. Unfortunately, due to historical reasons (mainly the low power of early computers), disorganised methods have been forwarded into modern applications so that the app wont’t be rejected and users are not compelled to re-learn or change their habits. This is wrong and the source of major problems, such as this one.

Would you require L^AT_EX to support Word ergonomics?

At least, new users should read the guide.

In the present case, the document seems to have a professional purpose. Then it should be written professionally (typographically of course, I don’t target the topic). And this is valid for any applications, even Word.

[ajlittoz]

Try with styles instead of using the toolbar button. I made my test with both Heading 1 and Numbering 1 after associating it with Numbering 123. It works as expected. But if use the toolbar button (direct formatting), I get the incorrect behaviour.

[ajlittoz]

A good explanation requires a good diagnostic. For that, I need the requested sample file to see the extent of the mess.

[keme]

[…] suddenly have an impact on the numbering scheme […] subsequently changes the numbering further down in the document, which is quite fatal, as the numbering is supposed to provide a unique identification […]

Which parameters are related to this, and how do I tweak them to make this work correctly?

The parameters

The main parameters related to your problem are:

• The software title in use
• The chosen data format for storage

*Softwares have different ways of handling structural information (like line-/paragraph-/figure- and other sectional numbering). This is often reflected in the app’s chosen “native” storage format. If there is no exact correlation between the structure used while working in the app and the structures available within the storage format, there is an element of translation, which always carries some potential for error or loss of information.

• This translation happens each and every time you open or save a document using LO Writer and the docx file format.
  
• It also happens every time you open or save a document using MS Word and the odt file format.
  
  In most Office softwares (including Microsoft Office and LibreOffice), when you first save your work using a non-native storage format, you are warned that your choice may affect the quality of your document. When you (alone or in conjunction with your collaborators) choose to use different softwares for opening existing files to edit and save again, this warning is often not issued.*

How to tweak

There is no tweak. You need a major shift.

• All collaborators in your team need to use the same software title.
• All files which contain work-in-progress documents must be saved using the file format native to said software.
• All cross references in documents must be automated, not typed in manually.
• All documents communicated externally (both stuff submitted outside team and what is received from the outside) should be in a “document safe” format (which usually means pdf)

If, for some reason, you must use Microsoft file formats, you should use Microsoft apps also. If you want to use LibreOffice, save every document using the Open Document file format.

In addition, for practicality I would advise using cloud based apps if you can. Microsoft and Google are perhaps the most prominent suppliers of online office suites (“365” and “Workspace”, respectively), but if you prefer the “LibreOffice ecosystem”, Collabora Office is a good option.

Note that if you work with confidential information, most jurisdictions will require that cloud based storage be governed by a data protection agreement. See e.g. the EU’s GDPR §114 & al., concerning confidentiality towards “natural persons” (i.e. “people”).

[ajlittoz]

To add more strength to @keme’s answer: if your sole motivation for LO use is to avoid to pay for M$ licence fee, you’re bound to fail. Writer is not a drop-in replacement for Word. It is a completely different application with its own workflow and idiosyncrasies. Of course, there is a non-void intersection with all other office suites. If you want to play safe, you must work only in this common intersection. That is, you use the app just like a typewriter and you format everything manually, never using the automation features like chapter numbering or list numbering, TOC, index, footnotes, … But even so, you are not immune a sudden change in font metrics which will mess up your manual layout. Think also that tables are considered advanced feature and may not always translate correctly in an alien format.

Otherwise take time to learn how Writer manages commonly agreed features. The key to mastering Writer is to understand LO has pushed the notion of styles far beyond …

[ajlittoz]

… what Word has very poorly done.

When you’re writing a “complex” document (in my opinion a document starts to be “complex” when it has more than 2 pages and/or is structured), you can’t avoid using styles.

You have to balance the cost of M$ fee (in case you really master Word) against the time needed to study the guide and practice a bit. I think it is beneficial even in the short term. And to avoid repeatedly configuring new documents, make yourself a collection of templates, one for each type of documents you produce.