Download page giving wrong impression to users

vinidi · June 10, 2022, 3:07pm

I consider myself a typical LibreOffice user, not an early adopter or beta version enthusiast, even though I work in the tech world.

When I open LibreOffice and get the update/download prompt, it takes me to the Download page, which says at the top right under ‘Download LibreOffice’: “Ideal for home users, students, and non-profits”.

However, the first download option here right below that is the “technology enthusiast, early adopter, or power user” version… which is not what the average user should be using, right? For the normal user, especially in a professional environment, they should be using the “tested for longer” older stable version, right? It’s very easy for the average user to download the version meant for “technology enthusiast, early adopter, or power user” without realizing it’s not the longer-tested stable version.

. . . I’m pasting the URL here: . . .

Download LibreOffice | LibreOffice - Free Office Suite - Based on OpenOffice - Compatible with Microsoft

. . . The URL is pasted above. You may only see the unfurled summation. Hover over it to see the URL I pasted. . . .

Maybe I’m completely out of my mind thinking that the stable version should show right below the blurb saying it’s ideal for the average user, and that the “tech enthusiast” version should be below that, but I don’t know; maybe the LibreOffice devs want the average person to be guinea pigs for beta versions. Am I just insanely crazy or what?!

Note that I chose the closest category/tag available that I could find.

Hrbrgr · June 10, 2022, 7:44pm

Am I just insanely crazy or what?!

Such rhetorical questions are out of place here.

vinidi · July 15, 2022, 6:42pm

Such rhetorical questions are out of place here.

I think that’s a matter of opinion where some would agree and some wouldn’t, and I feel your comment here is as out of place as you feel my question was. It’s OK to disagree on that without hurt feelings because this sub-thread is irrelevant to the actual issue anyway.

So do you think it’s sane or wise or smart for LibreOffice to show the “tech enthusiast / early adopter / power user” version (feasibly nicknamed the “beta” version) above the stable version? Do you think most casual or office users will download the beta version or the stable version because of that? I think they’re more likely to download the unstable beta version. Is that what LibreOffice wants? The majority of casual / office users running the unstable beta version instead of the stable version? This is the first time I’ve seen beta / stable download boxes ordered this way.

mikekaganski · July 15, 2022, 7:58pm

Please don’t spread FUD. We do not offer beta versions that way; we have separate downloads for alpha, beta, and release candidate versions (you may see those at the bottom of the download page); the release versions have passed all those preliminary testing versions.

That is a normal practice that “higher” versions are offered at the top, older below in ~all the projects that maintain several supported branches simultaneously; see e.g. PostgreSQL download page or NeoOffice download page. However, we go as far as to notify users that the branches that were released later, indeed, include new features that physically couldn’t get as much battlefield testing (used as much in actual work) as the older branch had. I would consider those who try to turn that upside down, and call our care about users as us treating users as “guinea pigs for beta versions” as spreading FUD, and acting very inappropriate. Shrug; you can’t avoid conspiracy theorists anywhere, especially when you provide some details that others just don’t care to show, expecting some common sense in users.

FTR:
The current 7.3 branch, which version 7.3.4 you show on the screenshot, had undergone these stages to reach that checkpoint: 7.3.0.0.alpha1; 7.3.0.0.beta1; 7.3.0.1; 7.3.0.2; 7.3.0.3; 7.3.1.1; 7.3.1.2; 7.3.1.3; 7.3.2.1; 7.3.2.2; 7.3.3.1; 7.3.3.2; 7.3.4.1; 7.3.4.2 (I marked the release versions in bold; others were for testing, and only available using dedicated links as shown at the bottom of the download page; see them in the download archive). And currently we are testing 7.3.5.1, before we release 7.3.5.2.

vinidi · July 20, 2022, 8:31pm

I’m not spreading FUD I’m pointing out why it’s a bad idea to put the unstable version for download above the stable version… I’ve accidentally downloaded the non-stable version and seen others do it when of course they want the stable version. Why would normal office users want the tech-enthusiast version?! That makes no sense. It shouldn’t be more prominently displayed (and yes, having it show first makes it more prominent to most people). I think you’re completely missing the point I’ve been making.

Do typical office users use PostgreSQL? No, devs do. LibreOffice is not a dev tool, it’s an office tool, like Microsoft Office (which it competes directly with). NeoOffice is comparable, and on the link page you provided, the most prominent download link goes to another page to download, and that page’s most prominent link to download is the “Universal” edition… which obviously is not the tech-enthusiast beta version, but the typical stable version. You’re missing the comparisons, and making incomparable conjectures with bad examples. You’re still completely missing the point from the typical office user’s point of view. You’re not the person to bring the issue too apparently.

mikekaganski · July 20, 2022, 8:38pm

LOL.

It’s you who doesn’t read ant get the point.

We provide several versions in parallel. MS removes the older MS Office version from proposals the day they release a new version. And you can use your intelligence to guess which of the two - the older one that was available yesterday, or the newer one available today, is the more stable one.

But anyway, given the texts you post, it doesn’t make sense to provide logical arguments - I only hope that the “tech world” company that employs such people does that for “unbiased” testing, not spoiled by deep understanding.

vinidi · July 22, 2022, 3:05pm

It’s OK, we’ll just go back and forth and nothing will change, office users will continue to be more likely to download the tech-enthusiast version instead of the stable version accidentally, possibly myself at times on new computer installs if I don’t double-check… why would anyone put the tech-enthusiast version above the stable version for an Office app? I don’t know. It doesn’t seem sensible to me. I don’t know why it would to LibreOffice promoters.

Anyway, maybe the numbers show that the stable version is downloaded more often, if so, great. Regardless, the logic isn’t sensible as it is now, because LibreOffice as far as I know isn’t primarily for tech-enthusiasts, it’s for people wanting an alternative to Microsoft Excel for financial reasons or UX reasons or because they want a better CSV editor which is primarily why I use it.

Even as a programmer, I certainly never wanted the non-stable tech-enthusiast beta version (call it what you want, “beta” is the simplest term that makes the most sense), I just needed it as an Excel alternative (or something more powerful than Google Sheets) and I’ve gotten annoyed that I and others downloaded the “beta” version I can’t convince the choir that the preacher is wrong in any way, all I can do is point out a logical flaw in the preacher’s actions, as criticized as I’ll be. Goodbye

vinidi · July 15, 2022, 6:44pm

What? How is this a bug or a feature request? I’m talking about a design flaw on the download page. Does the LibreOffice crew want the majority of casual / office users to install the beta version or the stable version? If I were the dev or product owners, it seems pointless to even have the stable version showing for download if it’ll be below the beta version… they may as well just only release the beta versions and call them the stable versions.

mikekaganski · July 15, 2022, 8:08pm

Are you trolling? You came to a site where users try to answer other users’ questions like “how do I …?”, and you start asking questions here that other users can only agree or disagree, but can’t change in any way - and you react this way to a constructive proposal from a fellow user that aims to show you how to notify the people in charge? (By the way, actually website-related issues are for redmine.) Had you read the How to use this site?