Footnotes printing too high up when exporting to pdf

[tomeka]

When I export my document to pdf some of the footnotes seem to be artifically exported way too high up on the page, sometimes in the middle of the separator bar. I tried changing the spacing of the bar (Space to text and Spacing to footnote contents) but this only moves the issue to other pages. This is how the page shows in my editor:

And when exporting to pdf (either via Export as PDF or Print to Microsoft PDF) this is what I get:

I use LO Writer 7.6.4.1 on Windows 10 and Sumatra for opening pdfs.

[Hrbrgr]

In which file format do you save your document?

Have you tried to open with Acrobat Reader?

[Wanderer]

This looks like a bug. The remaining question would be bug in pdf-reader or in generator.
.
Can you provide/upload .odt and .pdf to check?
.
As second pdf-reader you may try your browser. Chromium based browsers like Edge and Chrome should also display .pdf.

[tomeka]

Unfortunately I should not upload either – it’s a masters’ thesis and by putting it online I’m risking failing the anti-plagiarism check next month.

I tried with Okular and Firefox, and it’s also there.

I tried disabling Widow and Orphan settings so that the text re-flows on the page and it seems to fix this issue, however this is hardly a solution

[tomeka]

I keep the document in .odt and export to .pdf either through Export or Print with “Microsoft Print to PDF”.

I don’t use Acrobat Reader for obvious reasons, but Firefox, Okular and Sumatra all display the line the same way. It is there.

[ajlittoz]

@tomeka

Unfortunately I should not upload either – it’s a masters’ thesis and by putting it online I’m risking failing the anti-plagiarism check next month.

Then send it to me through private mail (click on my name, then Message). The attached file will not show up on the public side of internet and you’ll pass the anti-plagiarism test.

As always there is a 5MB limit on attached files. So, reduce the sample to the minimum still showing the issue.

[ajlittoz]

Your question lacks the usual information about OS name and LO version (since we already know you save .odt) and a very important clue: you use Zotero.

Zotero, being portable across several office suites and aiming a broader goal than simply inserting citations, reimplements many “formatting/layout primitives” in some “neutral” way, unique across suites, with macros. These macros are launched by various events and their “production” replaces what would have been created by the native primitives. The macros may be the problem here.

I am not familiar with Zotero, Mendeley, et al. because my needs were basic. So ask yourself, what is different in citations of footnotes 288 to 291? The only thing I see from superficial analysis (Zotero is not installed on my computers) is you are not consistent in your Shinn-Eisenmann citations where sometimes you have a chapter abstract, sometimes no chapter abstract. But this is probably not relevant.

It may be late to ask this: do you really need Zotero? On which original Zotero feature do you depend in such a way that other tools can’t be used? I assume your bibliography is generated from Zotero database though your bibliography has no gray background suggesting it is dynamically generated.

If all your Zotero notes contain nothing else than what is visible (i.e. no extra managed data) and your bibliography is hand-made (which I strongly suspect from the internal XML encoding), then clearly you could have make do with simple notes, thus probably avoiding the problem.

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A few remarks: there are still direct formatting occurrences (apart from the notes where the culprit is Zotero), mainly in relation with pages breaks. Couldn't you deal them with `Text Flow` properties of *Heading n* ? You don't use character styles in the bibliography. You alter *Heading n* headings with direct formatting.
The worst of all is your cover page where everything is manually done, not speaking of the frames which are really pointless (and paragraph style *Frame Contents* is "corrected" with direct formatting).

[tomeka]

I appreciate you trying to help, but I do have to clear up some stuff.

Your question lacks the usual information about OS name and LO version (since we already know you save .odt)

I did include this information in the original post (under the second screen-shot).

and a very important clue: you use Zotero.

Fair, I should have said that.

I am not familiar with Zotero, Mendeley, et al. because my needs were basic. So ask yourself, what is different in citations of footnotes 288 to 291?

Nothing is, because the bug described moves around depending on the formatting of the text. I wrote about it in the original post.

The only thing I see from superficial analysis (Zotero is not installed on my computers) is you are not consistent in your Shinn-Eisenmann citations where sometimes you have a chapter abstract, sometimes no chapter abstract. But this is probably not relevant.

Shinn-Eisenmann China and Africa… (cit. 288) and Shinn China-Africa Ties (cit. 289) are two separate entries in the bibliography. One is a standalone book and the other is a chapter in a different book.

It may be late to ask this: do you really need Zotero? On which original Zotero feature do you depend in such a way that other tools can’t be used? I assume your bibliography is generated from Zotero database though your bibliography has no gray background suggesting it is dynamically generated.

Yes, I do. Native bibligraphy manager does not (afaik) do the required citation style and definitely not in my native Polish. In fact, the official manual for LibreOffice Writer manual discourages using it at all and suggests Zotero in particular instead.

If all your Zotero notes contain nothing else than what is visible (i.e. no extra managed data) and your bibliography is hand-made (which I strongly suspect from the internal XML encoding), then clearly you could have make do with simple notes, thus probably avoiding the problem.

The bibliography is generated from Zotero basing on citations which were generated throughout the document. I couldn’t make do with simple notes due to the “ibid.” requirement, which Zotero dynamically adapts to when needed. Also manually copy-pasting citation data is labour-heavy and Zotero offers automation so I don’t quite see why I would do that manually?

A few remarks: there are still direct formatting occurrences (apart from the notes where the culprit is Zotero), mainly in relation with pages breaks. Couldn’t you deal them with Text Flow properties of Heading n ?

Yes, I did have to alter all occurrences of “Heading 1” manually due to the Page style associated with pages where new chapters begin (different Footer). And since these could be either left or right pages, I had to use two different versions of the Page style. I did not find a way to automatically apply left_new_chapter and right_new_chapter Page style accordingly.

You don’t use character styles in the bibliography. You alter Heading n headings with direct formatting.

Again, the bibliography and the entirety of citations are generated by Zotero, including text formatting. They have no character styles because I don’t touch it at all.

The worst of all is your cover page where everything is manually done, not speaking of the frames which are really pointless (and paragraph style Frame Contents is “corrected” with direct formatting).

I had to follow my university requirements for the title page. I’m not sure how else I could do that other than with Frames? Obviously not by entering a bunch of line breaks, right? I guess I corrected Frame contents manually because there are only 3 occurences of the style and one of them is a aligned differently. I could make do with one manual overwrite of a style.

Thanks anyway

[ajlittoz]

@tomeka

I did include this information in the original post (under the second screen-shot).

Sorry, I answered very late in the night after a long day with a tiring car trip.

Zotero: OK I see there is a rationale behind its use.

@tomeka

the bug described moves around depending on the formatting of the text.

Can you characterise under which circumstances the bad formatting moves around? Any hint could help to spot the problem.

@tomeka

And since these could be either left or right pages, I had to use two different versions of the Page style. I did not find a way to automatically apply left_new_chapter and right_new_chapter Page style accordingly.

There is a “variant” in page styles where you can make a page style context-sensitive. This “variant” replaces the pair left+right page styles. You select the “variant” in the Header and Footer tabs of the page style by unticking Same contents on left & right pages. Then by requesting an automatic page break to this page style in the Heading 1 Text Flow tab, Writer chooses the appropriate “variant” of the page style depending on page parity.

@tomeka

I had to follow my university requirements for the title page. […] Obviously not by entering a bunch of line breaks, right?

Do they require frames? The same result can be achieved with paragraphs. Vertical distance between these paragraphs is set in the Indents & Spacing tab of the paragraphs (style or direct formatting). You already applied Title. Subtitle is also available. Eventually you create an Author style.
The cover page is unique in a book. So, whether it is laid out with dedicated styles or not is debatable. However, even if you opt for direct formatting, use a unique “base style” to avoid interaction between bulk contents and cover.

[tomeka]

Can you characterise under which circumstances the bad formatting moves around? Any hint could help to spot the problem.

Any sort of manipulation of Text Flow. For example if in the file I sent you, in the Body Text style you change Orphan and Widow control to 4 lines (currently 3), then the weird spacing of footnotes appears fixed on pages 61 and 52, but now breaks on page 43 (citation no. 182). This has clearly got something to do with that particular setting, because the overflowing paragraph does in fact break exactly at 4 lines before the end:

One extra thing I remembered now is I specifically made the Footnote style NOT split between pages (Text Flow>Options>Do not split paragraph), because this in fact broke some Zotero citations which required flowing to the following footer. Disabling this however does not fix this particular instance as pictured above.

There is a “variant” in page styles where you can make a page style context-sensitive. This “variant” replaces the pair left+right page styles. You select the “variant” in the Header and Footer tabs of the page style by unticking Same contents on left & right pages. Then by requesting an automatic page break to this page style in the Heading 1 Text Flow tab, Writer chooses the appropriate “variant” of the page style depending on page parity.

I will look into this, thank you.

Do they require frames? The same result can be achieved with paragraphs. Vertical distance between these paragraphs is set in the Indents & Spacing tab of the paragraphs (style or direct formatting). You already applied Title. Subtitle is also available. Eventually you create an Author style.

Well, no, they did not require frames, but this is how I got the template, so I simply applied this in my document. This way I know for sure that the title is exactly in the middle of the page and author and subtitle frame are spaced equally. Title paragraph style by default does not put the text in the middle of the page, it only aligns it horizontally, so I am not even sure whether Paragraph style editing allows to put it in the middle vertically.

Furthermore, WG76 suggests Frames are exactly for this purpose? (Using frames for page layout, page 134)

The cover page is unique in a book. So, whether it is laid out with dedicated styles or not is debatable. However, even if you opt for direct formatting, use a unique “base style” to avoid interaction between bulk contents and cover.

Well I did. The title page is First Page and everything else is some variation of Left and Right page styles. Also all text on the title page (except Footer, which happens to be consistent with the entire document) uses proprietary styles: Title, Subtitle and Frame contents.

[ajlittoz]

@tomeka

I specifically made the Footnote style NOT split between pages […] Disabling this however does not fix this particular instance as pictured above.

How did you disable the setting? If you clicked on the check box to toggle the setting, this does not “disable” the setting; it only forces the “not set” state. Such binary parameters are in fact tri-state: “transparent”, set, not set. To fully disable settings, i.e. returning it to “transparent” state, you must press Reset to Parent button (this will erase all settings in the tab; so, you must re-enter the specific values you need).

When I disable “correctly” both Don’t split paragraph in Footnote and widow/orphan in Body Text, the generated PDF has no longer any “glitch”. I then re-enabled Don’t split paragraph (though I don’t see any difference). PDF still OK.

After this, I enabled widow and orphan with standard 2+2 in Body Text. PDF OK. I entered your preferred 3+3 parameters and again PDF is OK.

As a conclusion, I’d rather incriminate some problem inside Zotero. You should try to get the opinion of Zotero’s developers. This is probably a corner-case where some configuration is not correctly captured by Zotero (but I have absolutely no experience with Zotero, except noticing from complaints on AskLO that its direct formatting sometimes conflicts with users’ requirements).

If you want to check the result with my Fedora 39 (Linux) and LO 7.6.4.1, I can send the PDF through private mail (at 1.2 MB it should be possible).