Heading numbers wrong size in LibreOffice Writer 24.2.4

The heading numbers in all levels of my chapter headings recently changed to a constant size. I think it happened when I added a numbered list and changed the size of the numbers by clicking ahead of the first number (highlighting the list numbers) and changing the font size in the tool bar at the top. If I use the same method to change those list numbers to another size, all heading numbers (regardless of level) also change to that size. The headings are the correct font size, but the heading numbers are all the same, wrong size.

[Edit] Technical data:

  • OS is 64-bit Windows 11 Pro, v23H2, build 22631.3737.
  • LO is 24.2.4.2 (X86_64), build 51a6219feb6075d9a4c46691dcfe0cd9c4fff3c2.
  • Save format is ODT

Here is part of the problem document:

fbForth_3.0_Manual_ProblemExcerpt.odt (64.3 KB)

Unfortunately, we can’t help you at this stage. There is no technical data on which to base analysis. mention OS name, LO version and save format.

What you complain about is usually the result of trying to format “intuitively” your document instead of using styles. When it comes to heading numbering, NEVER (× 77 times) add numbers with toolbar buttons. You’ll then mix list numbering and heading numbering which creates an unmanageable mess.

This suspicion can only be assessed with your document or a representative sample from it you attach to your question.

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LO version is in my question heading.

What do you mean by “save format”?

I will edit my question with the details you ask in a few minutes. I will add the save format when I know what that is.

Regarding your conjecture, I am sure that is exactly what I have done and definitely need assistance in undoing it. Thank you for your quick response.

[Edit] Actually, I did not add numbers that way—only modified the font size, but, maybe, same issue.

save format is the file-save-format (e.g. ODT, DOC, DOCX, whatever).

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Sample-file?

I am not sure how to extract a sample from my document that would propagate the problem. I can post the document, but it is a 309-page, 4.6 KiB book I am revising for a new edition.

The point is: Did you number your chapters with menu Tools | Chapter Numbering (or similar) or did you number your chapters (headings) with “ordinary” styles or did you hard format (icons of format bar) your chapter numbering.
menu Tools | Chapter Numbering is the only stable method of chapter numbering, other methods cause problems (sooner or later).

Extract 2-5 pages containing chapter numbering…

I uploaded an excerpt from the problem document to the first post.

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A preliminary remark: your document is in the ~300 pages range. With such a size, it is impossible to control formatting unless you adhere to a very strict method. Unfortunately, you have a can of worms mixing (bad) styling with (heavy) direct formatting. Additionally; spaces and empty paragraphs are used to space “elements”. This is very detrimental to the stability of your layout (space width is adjusted by Writer independent from you; empty paragraphs may be flushed to other pages because of edits and will kill your layout or cause spurious blank pages). Many paragraphs are Default Paragraph Style (with direct formatting) though this paragraph style, intended to set attributes forwarded to all other styles, should not be used for text, due to its technical role of “ultimate ancestor”.

Style name should denote the significance of the paragraph, word, page, … to which it is applied, not a description of its visual effect.

Many equally significant paragraphs are styled differently, e.g. Body Text and No Spacing (this name is an example for the preceding remark, and I don’t see differences with Body Text except a little inconsistency in Spacing below). No Spacing is also applied to descriptions of keywords whereas you should have created a Description paragraph style with adequate configuration instead of indenting with direct formatting. You created No Spacing outside any style hierarchy, preventing this style from benefiting attribute inheritance.

Some paragraphs are Preformatted Text while this style is in tended for fixed-pitch text (mono-spaced fonts) where spaces are used to layout text. Your paragraph are just “ordinary” text with variable pitch.

You don’t use consistently character styles, apparently preferring direct formatting.

I could add list many other design errors in your style and writing routines but this is not the subject of your question. Nevertheless, I encourage you to stop writing for a while and deeply think about your styling in order to facilitate formatting optimisation and layout tuning.

Numbering size

You rightfully configured your heading numbering with Tools>Heading Numbering. But you forced Character style: to Numbering Symbols, meaning you intended to give the numbers a distinctive look different from the heading.

You have “touched” Numbering Symbols Font tab. You set font size to 11 pt. Or perhaps you set the font size to some other value and later realised it did not give the expected results. You decided to reset the style to its initial state. Since in the initial state it listed 11pt, you selected 11pt. You then stumbled on an undocumented behaviour of style configuration, due to a limitation in style display.

You must first remember the style precedence rule. Character styles take precedence over paragraph styles. If the same attribute is set in a paragraph style and in a character style, the value in the character style is used. And in case you also have direct formatting, direct formatting takes precedence over character and paragraph style.

The undocumented behaviour is: whatever you “touch” in a style configuration is set action. Binary attributes, represented as a check box, have 3 states: “transparent”, set and unset. Multi-valued attributes, represented by a drop-down menu with n choices, have n+1 states: “transparent” and the n choices.

“Transparent” means the attribute is not set in this configuration and its value will be inherited from its ancestors. Any set action blocks this inheritance, forcing the value to what you have set. Unfortunately the UI can’t show “transparent” state. It display inherited value the same as a set value.

In your case, there are two solutions:

  • reconfigure Tools>Heading Numbering to set Paragraph style: to <None>, reserving Numbering Symbols to other usages, e.g. list number
  • reset Numbering Symbols to its initial “transparent” state
    For that go to the Font tab and press Reset to Parent which will wipe out all manual settings in the page. Then you can re-establish your “mandatory” settings without touching font size.
    Numbering Symbols has no ancestors. Consequently the reset action puts it into full transparent state.

Final advice

Review thoroughly your styling to get rid of direct formatting and organise methodically and systemically (meaning, use a consistent semantic naming scheme) your styles.

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I thank you very much for the time and thought you took to resolve my problem. In fact, the simple solution is your second point re “reset Numbering Symbols”.

 

I know the formatting is all screwed up and I very much appreciate your advice concerning style. I am well aware that I should, pretty much, start over with it, but this document was developed over a long period of time and became like a house of cards with lots of expedient fixes as I was learning how to use LO Writer. A lot has changed in LO since it was published in 2017 and I would, indeed, do well to heed your advice on redesigning the document with systematic styles. I am just not sure that, at 80, I have the stamina. Thanks again!