How to adjust footnote positioning?

[ZAl]

Hello.

I need to use very long footnotes in the project I am working on.

When inserting a long footnote which extends several pages, each footnote is raised to a fixed height on the page, as indicated by the horizontal bar which seperates the footnote and the main body of text.

I need to find a way of adjusting this height on a page-by-page basis, and am wondering if this is possible.

The reason for this, is that I need my document to have two simultaneous stories on the same page. Footnotes allow me to do this, with a primary story in the main body, and secondary story in the footnotes. However, I need to ensure the secondary story in the footnotes ends on a specific page, and it would also be helpful if I can allow the main story to dominate some pages (in terms of the area it takes up), whilst the secondary story dominates other pages.

Any help would be enormously appreciated.

(edit: typos)

[EarnestAl]

You could instead use linked frames for the secondary story. It would be a bit of a pain but it gives the opportunity to resize frames to as large or small as the story requires.

You could set a template that includes a frame on each page but you would still need to manually link each frame to the previous one.

[ajlittoz]

This is indeed an abuse of the footnote feature, at least if your secondary story is a single footnote.
But your idea is “interesting” if the main and secondary stories are somehow “synchronised”. I mean the secondary story has some relation with the main story as a kind of alternative scenario starting at some definite checkpoint. This “checkpoint” is the anchor for the footnote and you can manually choose a space-anchor so that your reader doesn’t realise you’re using footnotes. Your secondary story is then broken into many notes of moderate size so that you control the extent of this secondary flow over the pages.

The space devoted to footnotes can be limited to a certain percentage, like 50%, in the page style configuration. This 50% figure avoids the whole page to be eaten by footnotes, always leaving ample room for your main story.

I am curious about the general aspect. Could you send me a sample through private message in case the text is not (yet) public.

[ZAl]

I could not find the “footnotes can be limited to a certain percentage”, but I presume you got mixed up and alluded to the solution anyway.

To change footnote area height: Page Style > Right click on the page style in use to modify > Footnote > Enter value in “Maximum Footnote Height”.

(I had to be careful not to mix up Footnote page style and the Footnote section of a given page style)

To then change it on a page-per-page basis, it seems I must create and apply a different page style for each different footnote area height. Unless there is a less tedious option?

It seems there is an upper limit of ~20cm, in spite of the option to make it “not larger than page area” (bug?).

Using linked frames or standard spacing could also work, but would make the text difficult to edit without breaking the structure.

This should work.

[ajlittoz]

@ZAl

I must create and apply a different page style for each different footnote area height.

Opting for this solution will create many problems with the flow of your main story because:

• you must add a manual break to switch the page style
• footnotes may cause page break of their own, leaving large blank spaces in your main story because a note can’t spill over in a different page style

I think your layout where you have two parallel stories in the same page would be better handled with a DTP program (e.g. Scribus if you’re looking for one in the FOSS domain).

[ZAl]

Thank you for bringing this to my attention. It is unclear how having to add a manual break to switch page style will cause problems? It seems like footnotes can spill into different page style, after testing, though the combination of this and the page breaks did feel very messy, and therefore likely that I will run into trouble in implementing this.

I presume with Scribus, I cannot save the document format in a way which allows for further editing through a conventional word processor, be it Libre or Microsoft Word.

To be clear, my challenge is not merely implementing this double story on a single page. But to do so in a way which allows for further editing, as I need to pull off a relatively rough draft to convince myself and others that its a good idea, before more re-drafting.

So far, I think I’ll have to resort to separating read-copy (using text boxes for secondary story) and edit copy (and having to re-do read-copy formatting each time I wish to share a new edit). It will be a while until both stories are at a stage where its worth testing these solutions, but I will try remember to update here on what works. In the meantime, toes are crossed that someone has a better solution.

[ajlittoz]

@ZAl

It is unclear how having to add a manual break to switch page style will cause problems?

Is is essentially because you disrupt automatic text flow. When you edit your discourse before the break, adding or removing stuff, you change the position of the “natural” break. Therefore, to make the manual break inconspicuous, you must move it the same as Writer would have done. Otherwise, either it occurs too early, leaving space at bottom of page, or too late, filling the current page but using only a few line on the next automatic one.

@ZAl

It seems like footnotes can spill into different page style, after testing

Thanks for pointing my incomplete statement. This “spill over” is not 100% reliable. I have designed a case where the result is not what people expect. This case is quite tricky and related to page parity with “blank” page insertion. I hesitate to qualify it a bug.

@ZAl

I presume with Scribus, I cannot save the document format in a way which …

Scribus has its own file format but can probably export in a variety of others. However, I doubt it can correctly translate to ODF or DOCX, because formatting primitives are radically different. Scribus, and Quark XPress alike, are page-based. Pages are primary objects user allocates. Contents is then inserted in pages and can’t overflow the page. Office suites are flow-based. Your text is a stream which is spread over pages on demand. You only control indirectly the pages through addition of page breaks.

Considering this huge “philosophical” difference, I don’t think Scribus can export to text processing format.

@ZAl

So far, I think I’ll have to resort to separating read-copy (using text boxes for secondary story)

Don’t, unless you use word “text box” as a generic term. In Writer text boxes are graphical “decorations” with very limited formatting possibilities. The “correct” way of handling your secondary flow in a comfortable way is to insert a text frame in your pages. However, you must insert manually a text frame in every page. The good news about it is you can link the text frames so that they all behave as a single one available for the secondary flow (text spills over to the next frame in the chain).

Consequently, you can start with this configuration which causes minimal fuss. In the beginning, size all your frames the same, approximately half the page size. While “tuning” your draft, you can change individually the size of each frame to “sync” both stories. Writer will reflow your text automatically.

I have no idea about the impact on performance. The more frames or tables, the more you may suffer some impact (usually unnoticeable with present-day computers). However linking frames over 100 pages is terra incognita for me.