I have version 7.4.2.3. I have read and re-read, and re-read the LibreOffice 7.3 Writer Manual, Chapter 16, “Master Documents”, and it seems such a simple thing, I just want my Sub-Docs to begin numbering at page 1, not to continue the numbering of my Table of Contents. I have spent hours now trying to outsmart the program to do this and the first page of my first Sub-Doc always starts with the last page of the Table of Contents.
I will be so grateful if anyone can point out what dumb mistake I am making to thwart this simple requirement.
And then I open the Page Styles and click on First Page, copy the First Page text from a previous version. Then, from the last line of the text on the first page: Insert > More Breaks > Manual Break > Page Break > Index > and I check the box to start at Page 1. Then Insert Table of Contents > OK.
Next, the cursor is at the paragraph mark below the Table of Contents. I Insert > More Breaks > Manual Break > Page Break > Default Page Style and again I check the box to start a new page numbering at page 1.
So now I would like to start inserting my Sub-Docs. There is a Text field in the Navigator, but it is connected to the first paragraph of the First Page, not to the first paragraph of the Default Page Style.
This is the insurmountable obstacle that I have not been able to work around. I want to insert my first Sub-Doc into the paragraph mark in the First Page of the Default Page Style - but it just won’t connect to that paragraph. I have to click on the Text field in the Navigator to open the Insert File, but when I do inset a file in causes a big mess, inserting in into the First Page. I can click on the document in the Navigator and drag in down to the bottom of the list - but now the page numbering starts at the end of the page numbering for the Table of Contents. Just what I don’t want.
Page numbering properties are attributes of page styles. Consequently, you must have different page styles in your master. You must also be consistent in style usage between master and sub-documents. The simplest way to achieve consistency is to base all documents on the same template and avoid direct formatting which takes precedence over styles and will ruin your intended formatting. This last advice is of utmost importance when you work with master and subdocs.
As an example of a violation of the last rule is the case of the Heading 1 paragraph in “Blood Pathogens” where break to Default Page Style has been added as direct formatting instead of setting it in Heading 1 definition as it seems to be a generic assumption for you. Here, this does not change document formatting (or it should not) but under other circumstances formatting will be different between the subdoc by itself and the composite master document.
I also see that you changed the Next style in Heading 1 to Default Paragraph Style instead of built-in Text Body. As already explained in a previous post (and many times on this site), don’t do that. Default Paragraph Style is the ultimate ancestor of all other styles. Whatever you set in here is forwarded to all styles. This is a convenient way to set user defaults but the style should not be used for discourse. Use Text Body.
All in all, I wonder if you created correctly your master because I can add absolutely no sub-doc to it. I remind you that creating an ordinary document and saving it as .odmwill not create a master. LO does not use file extension to determine the type. It scans the beginning of the contents and assess the real type of the file.
Encoding of an .odt and an .odm is different: they have not the same preamble. Therefore, a master must be created with File>New>Master Document. And since this doesn’t allow you to select a template, use the Template Changer extension (difficult to find on the extensions site but it is present) to attach to a template.
Make sure you have a real master and report back here.
Hi @ajlittoz, thanks so much for your help. Let me try to understand what I need to do here.
You say, " Page numbering properties are attributes of page styles . Consequently, you must have different page styles in your master. You must also be consistent in style usage between master and sub-documents. The simplest way to achieve consistency is to base all documents on the same template and avoid direct formatting which takes precedence over styles and will ruin your intended formatting. This last advice is of utmost importance when you work with master and subdocs."
I have developed a Template: Here’s the link: SM.ott - Google Drive. It has First Page, Index, and Default Page Style to keep page numbering separate.
I’m not sure at all about your example of a violation, " As an example of a violation of the last rule is the case of the Heading 1 paragraph in “ Blood Pathogens ” where break to * Default Page Style “has been added as direct formatting instead of setting it in Heading 1 definition as it seems to be a generic assumption for you.” I have 38 Sub-Docs for this Safety Manual, and they all line up the way they are supposed to when I convert the Master to a pdf - here the link to what this looks like: J & J Master Safety Manual Updated 11-15-22 - 2 Levels of TOC.pdf - Google Drive.
I am using the Tools > Chapter Numbering formatting in my Template to keep all headings the same throughout the Master document.
In the above pdf of the complete Safety Manual, my whole issue is that I just want the first page of the Sub-Doc, “1. Code of Safe Practices” to start at page “1”, not page “12”, the continuation of the TOC page numbering. This is my only issue at this time.
You say, "
But, In the Writer’s Guide, Chapter 16, Master Documents | 365:
“1) Open a new document from the template you created in Step 2, by choosing File > New > Templates, then selecting the template you created. Be sure the first page of this new document is set to the page style you want for the first page of the final document; if it is not, change it. In our example, the style for the first page is Title page.
2) If any text or page breaks came into this document from the template, delete the text. (The TOC, index, and any fields in headers and footers can stay.)
3) Click File > Send > Create Master Document. Save the master document in the folder for this project. We will return to this master document later. For now, you can either leave it open or close it.”
This is the Instruction I followed. The Step 3) way of creating a Master Document allows me to attach my Master to my “SM” Template. So I don’t need the “Template Changer” extension.
“Default Page Style” is what immediately appears is the Page. Following the instruction #1 above, I change the Page Style to “First Page”, and I copy the text from a previous version into this page.
And this is where I have found my difficulty. The Navigator has a “Text” option that I can click, and then insert a Sub-Doc file, but that “Text” paragraph in in the top of the First Page. So when I insert a file, “Code of Safe Practices”, this is where it is inserted, at the top of the First Page. The First Page is now below the Sub-Doc, I can drag the Sub-Doc to below the Text mark, and then change the First Page back to a First Page. But now the numbering of my first Sub-Doc starts at page “2”, exactly what I don’t want.
You say, “Make sure you have a real master and report back here.” I’m pretty sure I have a real Master, because the Navigator does allow for the insertion of Sub-Docs. But I still can’t get the first page of my first Sub-Doc to start at page 1.
Please help me get this seemingly simple function to work as it should. Please let me know any feedback or links you may need to help me with this.
The problem may come from an insufficient streamlined brain model of your document. It is made of several logical parts with diferent semantic importance:
cover page
optional front matter (revision history, diffusion list, list of standards or quality references, …)
TOC
chapters
optional index
back cover
Each of these logical parts has a different layout. Therefore, each has its own page style, at least because the header/footers are different. Note that a single page style is enough for all chapters because the header can be generated through fields.
Since you stored the chapters as independent files, the skeleton described above defines your master document. Write it as you would do for any other complete document, applying the automatic page switches with appropriate paragraph style Text Flow settings (if you style set is well designed) or with a special manual break to switch to the adequate page style and force the starting page number.
In your tentative answer, you say you played with an alternate Heading 1 Chapter 1 to work around some non-tamed difficulty. But you probably have create another problem. Tools>Chapter Numbering defines which paragraph styles participate in chapter numbering. Heading 1 Chapter 1 is not in them (Heading 1 is). Consequently, you must enter manually the chapter number “1.”. Your second chapter, if automatically numbered as expected from the use of Tools>Chapter Numbering will be numbered “1.”, the third “2.”, etc. Of course there tricks to fool Writer but they are beyond your reach presently and I strongly disrecommend them for such a trivial purpose. The tricks are only needed to have chapters numbered numerically and appendices alphabetically.
Your first goal is to build your master as sketched above without referencing the sub document. Use instead a single fake chapter inside the master until you have your cover, TOC, fake chapter correctly numbered. Only then replace the fake chapter by the sub-docs (one at a time).
EDIT: an after-thought question
How large will your document be? 100 or 500 pages?
Are your chapters reused in other documents? In other words, are some chapters also shared in some other documents (which seems to me not compatible with Quality System maintenance and should be replace by a reference to the actual document)?
Up until 500 pages, it is simpler to write a single document. With current desktop computers performance is not impacted. You may notice some slowdown on low end laptop but not significantly.
Without sharing, put everything in the same file. Take care to save frequently while working.
A single document will spare you the difficulties of master+subdocs.
I have read the information that begins with, “Chapter 16, Master Documents” on page 362, then down to, “Restarting page numbering” on page 371. My first Sub-Doc is, “Code of Safe Practices”, and I followed the instructions and created another Heading, “Heading 1 Chapter 1”, and set my first Header to this new Heading. I saved this document, then went to my Master Doc, and updated this document. Now, instead of my first page starting at the next page after the TOC page numbering, it starts at “0”.
Now I did come across a work-around for this by double clicking on the page number field in the Master Doc, which brings up an edit screen for Fields, with a setting for “Offset”. Who knew. So I set the Offset from 0 to 1, and viola, my page number bumps up to a 1, just what I have been trying to accomplish. Mission accomplished right. Wrong! The Table of Contents is not fooled and still shows that first page as a “0”.
So I have tried and tried to go back to the Sub-Doc, “Code of Safe Practices”, and follow the instructions again in setting up this new Heading, but nothing changes the outcome that it starts page numbering at “0”. If I load more Sub-Docs into the Master, below the first one, the page numbering flows from page “0” nicely. But still not what I need. No professionally written Safety Manual can start at page “0”.
So, again, I am hoping that someone in our LibreOffice group can sort this out for me. So close, but not there yet.
This proceeding (statistic fields / TOC) generally is to avoid. Use the very first paragraph | properties | Text Flow
This is valid for “normal” texts and probably for master documents as well. Hopefully @ajlittoz can help more.
Don’t play wit page offset for the sole hope of changing the page number. This is not the purpose of the offset. The Page Number field is not a simple counter. It is first a reference to some page then it extracts the number of that page. When you do nothing to page offset, you reference the current page and get its number. When you enter an offset, you try to reference this page relative to the current one. If it exists, you get its number; if it does not exist, the field becomes void! The primary use of page offset is for things like “see next/previous page” with this directive becoming void at last/first page.
In your case, this may be innocuous because you have a next page but look at the last page (if it is still controlled by the same page style) and you’ll notice the page number has vanished.
The correct way to define a starting value for page number is through a special Insert>More Breaks>Manual Page Break or the Text Flow tab of a paragraph style where you can force the starting page number. This is a case wher direct formatting is tolerated.
As I said above, page offset doesn’t change the page number. It is a kind of cross-reference. When you collect the TOC, the real page number is captured and you have your 0 in the TOC. This is why it is important to alter the real page number through a special manual break.
Hi @ajlittoz, thank you for continuing to help me in this issue. Yes, yes, I agree with you completely, it is through the Insert > More Breaks > Manual Break function that is the correct way to force a new page break, specifying a particular page style, and checking the box to start at #1. Yes, I know this is the way, and I have tried and tried, many different ways to accomplish just this very simple task. But I am thwarted again and again because the Navigator, in Master Doc mode, will not put the focus of the insertion of the first Sub-Doc where the page numbering starts at “1”.
I will go through what I have been doing, step-by-step, and see if you can find where I have misstepped:
I Open a new doc from my Template: SM.ott. I posted a link in a previous reply.
I Change the Page Style from “Default Page Style” to “First Page”. I change the Header 1 to Default Paragraph Style and I copy some text from a previous version into this First Page.
Then, following the Instructions from the LibreOffice 7.3 Writer Manual, Chapter 16, “Master Documents”, Page 365: File > Send > Create Master Document. I now have a .odm file, and when I double check the Document Properties, it is indeed based on my SM.ott Template. The Master Doc Navigator is up on the left side and there is just a single “Text” showing. When I click on this the cursor goes to the very first paragraph at the First Page, before the text I just pasted into this page.
Now, following the correct procedure, I place the cursor at the end of the text on the First Page: Insert > More Breaks > Manual Break: I leave the selection on “Page Break” I select “Index” as the Page Style, I check the box “Change Page Number”, Set it “1” and hit OK.
Now, LO shows that I am indeed in an Index Page. Now I go down to the Footer and Type in “TOC Page” and do Insert > Page Number and yes indeed it did start at page 1, just as I instructed, not page 2, if it had counted the First Page. This is all good. Then I place the cursor in the open paragraph at the top of this Index page and Insert > Table of Contents Index > Table of Contents, Index or Bibliography, and set the Evaluate up to level to “2”, and click OK.
Now I am ready to insert my Sub-Docs. And here is where I am thwarted. Following the above procedure, I place the cursor in the open paragraph in the Index page and Insert > More Breaks > Manual Break: I leave the selection on “Page Break” I select “Default Page Style” as the Page Style, I check the box “Change Page Number”, Set it “1” and hit OK. This opens the Template page I have created for all of my Sub-Docs, which is just where I want to be. When I scroll down to the Footer, it does indeed say I am at “Page 1 of 5”. Now, if I can just insert by first Sub-Doc right here, at the tope paragraph of this page, I’m good to go and I will be able to create the Safety Manual the way it needs to be.
But here’s the whole problem: The Navigator will not change the focus of the Text value from the paragraph in the Index Page, to the paragraph in the Default Page Style. I have tried to right click on the Text > Insert > Text but it just adds another paragraph below the first paragraph in the Index Page. The focus is still in the Index Page.
So I go ahead and click on the Text marker in the Navigator, right click and Insert File. I choose my first Sub-Doc, “Code of Safe Practices”, and it downloads into the Master.
Now this is the file that I first changed the first Heading 1, to “Heading 1 Chapter 1”, according to the instructions in the Writer’s Manual, “Restarting page numbering” page 371. But, reading your comment I changed it back to just “Heading 1” and readjusted the numbering in my Tools > Paragraph Numbering back to just the standard Heading 1. Now when it downloads into the Master, the first page is Page 2. Not page 1 as I need.
This is because the focus of the Navigator Text field would not change from the paragraph in the Index Page to the paragraph inside the added Default Page Style, which did start at Page 1. So I am forced to add a Default Page Style beginning in the Index Page. Even though I specified a new page number in the Insert > More Breaks > Manual Break function. The page number is tied to Index Page numbering. As the TOC grows, the page numbering grows, and my document is trashed, because the Sub-Docs Section needs to start at page 1.
If there is just a way to get the Navigator to change its focus from this paragraph in the Index page to the Default Page Style, before I insert my first Sub-Doc - my whole problem is solved. Once I do insert the first Sub-Doc, the new Text marker in the Navigator is now focused below the last page of the Sub-Doc, “Code of Safe Practices”, the next Sub-Doc is added here, and this is all correct. But the page number following is all tied to the Index page numbering, not the Sub-Docs.
Yes, I could indeed put all of these documents into a single document, but this is not how I want to do this project. My final document is just over 500 pages, but I like the Master/Sub-Doc program. I have used it for many years in other projects, and I have not had this problem before, and I don’t know why I am having it now. It’s such a simple thing, move the focus of the Navigator to the Default Page Style.
Your problem is quite simple. According to the version of your .odm attached to the comment above this one, your manual break is not located where it should.
To fix the case, forget temporarily about the master view in the Navigator. This view is there to structure the document and reorganise it by dragging the parts. It looks like you’re a bit confused by it.
Work in the document window. The present state is as follows:
start of document with TOC
empty paragraph (I give it name “T” so that I can refer to it unambiguously later)
3 times included subdoc followed by empty paragraph
empty paragraph with direct formatting font change (Tahoma to Arial)
empty paragraph with same properties where you added the manual break (I call it B for further reference)
The manual break which is presently in B should be in T. I think the “error” happened when you inserted the first subdoc. You clicked on the last Text entry in the Navigator. The subdoc is always inserted before the clicked item. You move it after the item by dragging it. To fix your document structure, click the last Text item, the one with the B paragraph and drag it over the Text item below the TOC, where the T paragraph is. Everything is now as you expect it.
You can delete the Text items between the subdocs as they are totally empty and may cause blank pages to be inserted (depends on various factors) and at least will prevent your subdocs to start at the very top of the page.
Another “mistake” (related to intended use of built-in styles) is to type your cover page with Default Paragraph Style. Standard style for text is Text Body. On the cover page you have Title and Subtitle. I still see direct formatting almost everywhere. This will cause major problems in the maintenance of the document as are managed such Quality System items.
I also notice that the style dictionary is polluted to an unacceptable degree by remnants of its M$ Word origin (hundreds of character styles created by the conversion process without value, perhaps tens of page styles in each subdoc).
Hi @ajlittoz, again thanks so much for your patient help in this matter.
I’m not at all sure how t proceed with the instructions you give above. It can’t be “normal” for LO to require this kind of work around, just to get started inserting Sub-Docs into the Master. It should be just one-two-three and away we go, the first Sub-Doc starting at page 1. Why all the fuss?
My sincere apologies for this rant, truly, because I have so loved working with LO over the last 15 years or so. But this just can’t be right, to have all this fuss just to get the page numbering right.
I did do this using Microsoft Word, and it was just that simple. It was just a matter inserting a new Section. That’s the key. When I Inserted my first Sub-Doc, after the TOC, in this new Section, it started on page 6. I closed the Outline View, went to Edit Mode, and Right-Clicked on the number in the Footer, a window opened up, just like our window when we do the Insert routine, asking me if I wanted to continue with numbering from the previous section, or start with a new page number. I clicked on start at page 1, of course, it changed to page 1, I updated the TOC and it showed the first doc started at page 1, and I’m good to go adding the rest of my Sub-Docs. I don’t like MS Word at all, I love LO, but this was very slick, very easy, and no work arounds required.
I had to add this so I could just point out that something can’t be right in LO that there is this much fuss to get started at the right numbering sequence. After inserting a new Page Style, “Default Page Style” I should be able to Right-Click on the number in the first page and set it to 1, not an Offset, but actually set the page number to 1. And have the TOC reflect this. Simple.
In previous versions I just followed the steps you originally recommended, starting with First Page, then Insert > More Breaks > Manual Break, etc. as we discussed above, inserting the Index page with a new page number, then Default Page Style starting with a new page number, and boom, boom, boom, everything just fell into place, with page numbering starting just where I wanted it to start. So something is different, and I don’t believe it has anything to do with my documents being in Default Paragraph Style.
I have created three Sub-Docs, Sub-Doc A, Sub-Doc B, and Sub-Doc C with nothing but “Sub-Doc A”, “Sub-Doc B”, and “Sub-Doc C” in each doc. I’m not sure if this is what you wanted.
Here are the steps I followed:
Open a new Doc from my Template: SM.ott
Send > Create Master Document
Page Styles > Index
Insert Table of Contents and Index > Table of Contents, Index or Bibliography, sent the Heading level to 2, OK
Now this is where I am confused: You say, "
There is an empty paragraph below the TOC that says, Table of Contents". You are calling this paragraph, “T”.
So I Right-Click on “T” > Insert > File > Sub-Doc A.
Now I Right-Click on Sub-Doc A > Insert > Text and now I have an empty paragraph mark below the TOC label, and an empty paragraph below Sub-Doc A.
I Right-Click on the empty paragraph below Sub-Doc A > Insert > File > Sub-Doc B. And again I insert and empty paragraph between A and B.
I went to the bottom most empty paragraph, and changed it from Tahoma 12 point to Ariel 12 point. It’s still a Default Paragraph Style.
But your next instruction I don’t understand, " * empty paragraph with same properties where you added the manual break (I call it B for further reference)." I’m not sure what this means. I did place my cursor into this last empty paragraph and do the Insert routine. I did get a new, blank Default Style Page document that starts at page 1. But I’m still now able to get into this blank document, try whatever tricks I can think of. If I add a Sub-Doc below this blank doc, it starts at page 2. If I try to drag it up one, the blank doc is still page 1, and the Sub-Doc is still page 2.
On and one and on, I try everything. It’s not supposed to be this way. There is just no way a properly functioning Master/Sub-Doc program should require any kind of maneuvering like this. Where’s my simple Right-Click on the page number and set it to 1? Not an Offset, but a simple starting page number of 1, that’s recognized by the TOC.
So please, please, please, help me get this right. MS Word has it down pat, simple, simple, simple. And I just can’t believe that LO can’t have the same simple functionality.
Always, I am ever grateful for this Forum and for your kind help.
The most difficult point when switching from Word to Writer is to accept the idea that Writer is not Word and it is based on different principles. Writer has much better specified concepts, e.g. styles, resulting in a more powerful application (= able to format more complex documents which should be handled by DTP apps if you only have Word – but this is not your case). You must first forget all your muscle memory routines. This is a psychological obstacle.
Your mental lock is Word “section”. Part of its functions is available as a Writer page style. But it not a one-to-one mapping. A change of page style needs an explicit change (a special page break). All properties for the new sequence of pages are cleanly defined in the page style and the trigger in the special page break.
Behind the so-called simplicity of the Word feature/routine, many conceptual difficulties are hidden which are revealed when you convert a document from MSO format to ODF. The first one is the location where the switch occurs. It uses the soft flow-driven page break which is then turned into a hard page break resulting in the dreaded one-page-style-per-page syndrome in Writer.
The procedure in Writer is quite simple; you create a boundary to apply a page style. This is the role of the Inert>More Breaks>Manual Break. There you request unambiguously the new page style (may be identical to the current one) and a starting page number.
This should not be difficult even with Word muscle memory.
As I explained previously, don’t offset the page number in the page number field. It does not operate on the n umber itself but on the page you reference which may not exist thus giving unexpected results for a newbie. An offset is not an arithmetic operation on the page number. It is a reference to a different object, here a page, from which you extract a property (the page number).
Now, the master/subdoc approach
The goal is to slice your big document into smaller pieces either to manage them more easily or to reuse pieces without modifications between various documents.This split does not change anything in the formatting rules with one constraint: a subdoc is inserted in the text flox as a whole atomic unit and, by default, can’t be edited in the master. The difficulty here is to choose where the formatting directives like page style switch are located. You can place them either in the subdocs or in the master “between” the subdocs.
You chose the second option. In this case, my advice is to proceed with the page style action once the subdocs have been inserted in the master. This is because you didn’t pay enough attention to the fact that subdocs are inserted above the insertion point you have selected in the master view of the Navigator.
In your procedure you create the special page break before you begin to insert the subdocs. This means your special page break is now below the subdoc which is then under the TOC page style control with sequential page number. And when you continue to insert subdocs, you move the special page break more and more (it remains at end of master where it is useless).
My general approach with Writer is to put everything is place before I start the formatting job (autonomous document as well as master+sub). So, nothing moves any more. Note that I play then only with styles with some exceptional manual formatting like inserting special page breaks or resetting list numbering.
Thanks again @ajlittoz for your time and patience with this issue.
Please note that in the MS Word procedure, the Right-Click on the page number in my first Sub-Doc did not offer an Offset, but actual access to the Page Numbering of this Section. It actually changed the Page Number from 6 to 1, and this was reflected in the TOC when I updated it. The Offset Feature in LO is of course not the answer, as you say. I did not imply that it was.
Your reply has not brought me any closer to a solution to my dilemma - Yes, I fully appreciate that the Text value in the Navigator does insert the next File BEFORE it, so the File gets uploaded into the TOC page numbering system. Just what I don’t want.
You have said previously that I am paying too much attention to the Navigator, and I’m like - What??? This is my Tool to insert my Sub-Docs. I can do the Insert routine and successfully insert a new, empty page, starting at Page 1, formatted according to the SM.ott Template I have carefully developed to structure all of my Sub-Docs. I just need to be able to have the Navigator move it’s focus into the first empty paragraph of this blank document and let me start inserting my Files.
I can Manually insert them here as Text Files, but that defeats the whole purpose of the Master/Sub-Doc program, as the file does not appear in the Navigator as part of the program. I have all my Sub-Docs prepared, they are all in SM Template format, and I just need to have the first page of the first Sub-Doc start at page 1. Everything is in place. I’m ready. Is the LO Master/Sub-Doc program ready??? Your criticism of MS Word is hardly appropriate, because it easily does what I want to do here with LO. I am not interested in psychological issues. Word is not my choice, that’s why I’m asking here. But If I can’t solve my issue here, it’s back to Word and that would be a really going backward choice I don’t want to make.
So you have a link to my Template, SM.ott. You can make up your own docs using it. Can you get the first Sub-Doc to start at page 1? Is there something inherently wrong with this Template? If not then please tell me how. If you have a Template that works and Sub-Docs that work, please send me the links and let me study them to see how mine are not compatible with this program. I’m only looking for solutions here, nothing else. Show me, please with your own documents how you do this.
Yes. As you point out, it’s just a matter of going to the right “place”. You have two ways of doing this:
scroll manually to your empty paragraph after the TOC (or create one here) and click
double-click on the Text item below Index - TOC in the Navigator to send the cursor at the beginning of this Text area
Once you have the cursor positioned after the TOC, Insert>More Breaks>Manual Break and request the adequate page style and page number.
I explained the reason why it is preferable to do it after subdocs insertion: insertions have moved your break at the end of the document (where you can find it). By creating the break after subdoc insertions, you are sure that it will no longer move.
Now, following your instruction: " * double-click on the Text item below Index - TOC in the Navigator to send the cursor at the beginning of this Text area". When I do this the cursor is now in the empty paragraph mark below the TOC title, still under the control of the TOC Page Numbering Program.
Following your next instruction: " * double-click on the Text item below Index - TOC in the Navigator to send the cursor at the beginning of this Text area" This does not move the cursor below the TOC page numbering.
Following your next instruction: " Once you have the cursor positioned after the TOC, Insert >More Breaks >Manual Break and request the adequate page style and page number."
The cursor is still positioned in the TOC page numbering program. Double-Clicking on the “Text” item in the Navigator does nothing to move it. Double-Clicking on the empty paragraph mark in the TOC does nothing to move it. But now I do have a blank document, in the Default Page Style, that starts at page 1, the Style I want to use to insert my Sub-Docs. But it is inaccessible by any means I can devise using the Navigator. I need access to this empty paragraph mark in this empty page.
So what I have been doing, over, and over, and over, many, many times, is trying to “outsmart” the LO Program. So using the Navigator, I click on the Text marker in the Navigator, below the TOC, Right-Click > Insert > File and select my first Sub-Doc. It downloads into the TOC and the First Page is Page 2, the second page of the TOC. Not what I want.
But scrolling down to end of this 3 page document, lo and behold, I find the blank document I created following your instruction above. And it’s still on Page 1. So if I could just get this new document in the TOC to flow into this blank document, and adopt this Default Page Style page numbering - well that would be the solution to my issue.
But guess what, it’s Write-Protected, not messing with it. Anything I try to do to get into, delete paragraph marks, etc. the sign comes up and tells Write-Protected.
Here’s a screenshot:
So now there is a new Text mark in the Navigator, and clicking on it puts me at the end of this first Sub-Doc, but still not a help, because I’m still in the TOC numbering program. I can keep adding Sub-Docs and the numbering will flow from the TOC. I can go to this empty paragraph mark at the end of this first Sub-Doc and do the Insert routine, and get another blank Default Page Style, that starts at Page 1 - but it’s still Write-Protected.
If you can point out where in my step-by-step process I can actually have access to these blank documents, then please point this out to me.
You conclude: " I explained the reason why it is preferable to do it after subdocs insertion: insertions have moved your break at the end of the document (where you can find it). By creating the break after sub-doc insertions, you are sure that it will no longer move." I have no idea what this means. Maybe I’m just too dense to get it.
Like I say, if you have a Template and some Sub-Docs and you can show me step-by-step how you accomplish this simple procedure, I would be so glad to see how you do it. So far your instructions have not be helpful, just frustrating. A lot of time going over this with you. And still nothing.
I loath the thought of having to use MS Word, learning how to use their Styles and Templates. I believe Bill Gates is not a good person. I don’t want to use their program. But if this is all you have to offer, then I’m done here. Perhaps there is someone else in the LO Forum that has been following this dialog and can help.
Let’s start from the state shown in your last screenshot. What is missing is a Text item between Table of Contents and Code …. This can be fixed in either of two ways:
create a Text area:
select the Code … entry like in the screenshot
right-click and Insert>Text
check you now have and empty paragraph between the TOC and the first subdoc
This empty paragraph will receive the special page break to change the page style
move the existing Text to another position
click on the Text at end of list and drag it without releasing the mouse button to its intended position below the TOC
I’m sorry for TL;DR - just wanted to mention that when one knows that some subdocument must start on a new page with specific numbering, one can simply set these properties directly in the subdocument using the very first paragraph’s direct properties (which is one-time DF, and IMO is OK here; otherwise, if that would be a recurring situation, that would go to the corresponding “heading” style), and that would be reflected in the master. This avoids an empty paragraph before the subdocument.
Sorry for the noise if this had been discussed above.
And I do have an empty paragraph between the TOC and the first Sub-Doc, as you say.
Following your next step: “This empty paragraph will receive the special page break to change the page style.” I assume that you want me to click on this Text entry in the Navigator below the TOC, and do the Insert > More Breaks > Manual Break > Default Page Style, set to page 1. That Text entry is still connected to the blank paragraph below the TOC. I have done this maneuver many, many times, as I have reported above. It produces a blank document that starts at page 1, but it is not showing in the Navigator.
I can insert a text file directly, but it does not show up in the Navigator. The whole purpose of the Master program is to protect the Sub-Docs from editing in the Master, but the Master controls the overall appearance. I don’t want to just insert the Text Files to create the Safety Manual.
If you could just please show me, using your own Template, then convert to First Page, Index, Sub-Doc, and show me screen shots at each step. Your instructions do not work. I have tried them every which way, over and over. The first page of the first sub-Doc always starts at page 2. Please show me, using your own document how you get the first page to start at page 1.
Hi Mike, thanks so much for jumping in here. This has been a long, long dialogue, and totally without any solution. And now I follow your simple instruction and OMG, viola!!! It looks like it works.
I did go into my first Sub-Doc and do as you suggested, Right-Click on the Heading 1 paragraph > Paragraph > and open the menu > Text Flow > Breaks > Insert > Type: Page > Position: Before > With Page Style: Default Page Style > Page Number 1, Then: Outline and List > Outline Level is set using the Tools > Paragraph Styles > List Style: 1,2,3 > Restart Number with this paragraph: Checked > Start with: 1 > Here are the screenshots, perhaps for others following:
and Yippee!!! - the first page of the first Sub-Doc, Code of Safe Practices, actually and truly starts at Page 1 and the TOC knows this and shows this. Amazing Grace!!! Can’t thank you enough.
I’m on my way to getting this project done, Praise the Lord. Can’t tell you what a relief this is.
