Indent Differences between platforms (mac OS sonoma, pc-linux)

i have a problem with the indent on a certain text style, when using the document on different platforms (Mac, linux on a pc).

i created the libre-office file on a mac, sonoma (libre office 24.8.0.3). when my friend uses the file on his pc with linux, the indent on a certain text style, doesnt work proper anymore.

attached is a picture where you can see how the indent is supposed to be looking, and a picture of the indent where it doesnt look the way, it supposed to be.

Right

Wrong
Wrong-pc-Linux

someone have a clue, what this could be, and how it can be resovled?

cheers

Unfortunately, their screenshots are not very informative.
To be able to examine a comparison of this type, it is advisable to switch on Formatting Marks (Ctrl+F10).
It would be even better to extract this page and upload it here (Writer file).
However, I assume that you are using the native ODT file format.

This behaviour suggests you are practising direct formatting instead of styles. In addition you rely on implicit configuration which differs between your computers (I think particularly of distance between implicit repeated tab stops and list formatting with Format>Bullets & Numbering or equivalently toolbar buttons).

The only reliable way to guarantee unchanged stable formatting is to follow a strict style approach, eliminating every bit of direct formatting or reliance on implicit configuration.

Note that understanding what a list is from an abstract point of view is the key point to success. You must structure your mind to make a distinction between paragraph formatting (paragraph style) and geometry of number/bullet side (which is taken over by the list style). This is fundamentally different from M$ Word. It is hard to grasp from the start but provides you with an extraordinary quantity of effects.

For better analysis, attach a sample file.

I would hazard a guess that somehow the sliders for Aligned at and Indent at got moved somehow.
AlignAtIndentAtSliders

The easiest way to fix is to select the entire list and click Format > Clear direct formatting (Ctrl+M) to remove the direct formatting.
If the list is direct formatted as well it would then be necessary to add back the expected direct formatting such as font, font size, alignment.

thank you.
i did that and now, the file works perfectly fine on apple and windows, but still has the same problem when opened and edited in linux.

i’ve attached the whole file.

Vorlage Mehrseitiges Dok DE-v15.odt (846.7 KB)

I’d be more interested in the version number of the LibreOffice on “that” Linux.
.
Also I see more problems lurking as the line break happens behind or before “Florian”. So one point to check may also be, if the same fonts are installed on the linux-computer.

Maybe some option in Menu>Tools>Options>LIbreOffice Writer>Compatibility

The problem is related to Quellen 1-Spalte paragraph style. You attached it to the outline hierarchy at level 3. Note that the same may happen with Quellen 2-Spalten (level 4). I don’t see why you did this because these paragraphs look to me rather like a list than true chapter headings.

This paragraph (and similar) have a very pernicious form of direct formatting which is not reported by the Style Inspector.

Since the paragraphs are numbered in the heading hierarchy, they are list items. Therefore, everything (procedure, use cases, caveats, traps, dos and don’ts, …) applicable to lists must also be observed.

One fundamental rule is the list style takes ownership of the “left edge” of the paragraph. This means you shouldn’t alter indents in the paragraph style but do this in the list style. For headings, the list style is Tools>Heading Numbering.

I think there has been a “recent” change in list/paragraph relationship handling to relax the rule. However, I am not sure that there aren’t residual conflicts as seems to be demonstrated by the sample document.

You have defined a 2.2cm Before text indent, but left Tools>Heading Numbering, Position tab Aligned at 0 with an Indent at 0,3cm. This creates an “invisible” -0,3 cm First line indent direct formatting, among others.

You probably have manually tweaked either the paragraphs or the style in such a way I can’t get rid of the faulty settings. If I change the style assigned to level 3 in Tools>Heading Numbering, I can tune Position to achieve what you want. Similarly, if I detach Quellen 1-Spalte from outline and associate a list style to it, again I get what you want.

Also, you requested a tab after the number but set the stop at 0 cm (which is already behind cursor position after the number). This means the stop will occur at the next evenly spaced stop. This distance may be different between your platforms.

The bad linewrap is also explained by the “nasty” undeletable direct formatting.

Suggested fix

If you Quelle 1-Spalte and Quellen 2-Spalte paragraphs are not headings (and I do think that “logically” they aren’t headings because no explanatory text follows them), i.e. they won’t end up in the TOC, detach them from Tolls>Heading Numbering.

  • Modify the paragraph style(s) to reset Before text indent to 0cm.
  • Associate the paragraph style with list style Numbering 123 (Outline & List tab)
    This style is unused, thus available.
  • Tune level 1 Position parameters:
    • Aligned at 2,2cm
    • Followed by tab stop
    • Tab stop at 2.5cm
    • Indent at 2,5cm

Adapt distances to your preferences. For a nice look, it is important to set tab stop and indent to the same value.

The same list style can be shared with Quellen 2-Spalte (same level 1) because they won’t be used simultaneously. To restart numbering for a new list, Format>Lists>Restart Numbering in the first list item.

Other improvements

You have a lot of vertical spacing direct formatting with empty paragraphs. Notably, you “synchronise” headings at top of pages with empty paragraphs at bottom of previous page. This is wrong. You may see differences between platforms if (substituted) fonts have not the exact same metrics.

You should encode the page break in Text Flow properties of the `Heading n* paragraph style.

Also if you want the heading on the same page as the first line of the next paragraph (start of chapter contents), tick Keep with next paragraph in Text Flow of the relevant Heading n.

Avoid using images when there is no need to. For example, DIGITALE GESELLSCHAFT could have been composed directly as text (eventually inside a table to have different alignment between left and right parts of the header). Even the coloured square is available as a filled character in most fonts.

This would equally remove the request to rescale the image before use. It is always better to preprocess images outside Writer so that it uses them as is at 1:1 scale. Scaling could also create divergences between platforms.

Finally, pay special attention to your sections. There is no point in nesting 1-Spalte inside Bereich1.

It is better to end Bereich1 before starting chapter 3. If you want another 2-column section in chapter 4, create another one there. The global structure is cleaner and more in line with the semantics of your document. Also, it makes shorter sections, putting less stress on Writer (better performance and more stable document).

2 Likes

wow! thank you so much for this indepth analysis of my problem – it is very much appreciated.

also, please excuse my “writing”, as english is not my native language, and if something is phrased weirdly, it was not my intention to do so. :wink:

you’re right about Quelle 1-Spalte and Quelle 2-Spalte not being headlines or heading hierarchy. they are source reference points.

i tried your suggested fix and may got something wrong. i detached the styles from Tolls>Heading Numbering and could follow the 3 steps you proposed, but i dont know what you meant with “adapt distance to your preference”. i think i got something wrong, because now, the text starts at the left margin of the document, rather than with a indent on the left side. also, if i use the same Numbering 123 style for the 2-columns layout, the indent is a little too big i guess.

i couldnt get to your other improvements yet, but im now looking into it. it is my first time using libre office and although i really like the software, it is a little overwhelming for me. it is not easy to get to know and understand all the features it provides.

i’ve attached a screenshot and the newly adapted file.

Screenshot 1-column:

Screenshot 2-solumn:
Bildschirmfoto 2024-11-15 um 11.28.12

Vorlage Mehrseitiges Dok DE-v16.odt (847.2 KB)

also i got the information about the different officelibre version:

on my computer/Mac:

Sonoma 14.7.1
Version: 24.8.0.3 (AARCH64) / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: 0bdf1299c94fe897b119f97f3c613e9dca6be583
CPU threads: 10; OS: macOS 14.7.1; UI render: Skia/Metal; VCL: osx
Locale: de-CH (de_CH.UTF-8); UI: en-US
Calc: threaded

on the windows system:
Version: 24.2.5.2 (X86_64) / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: bffef4ea93e59bebbeaf7f431bb02b1a39ee8a59
CPU threads: 8; OS: Windows 10.0 Build 22631; UI render: Skia/Raster; VCL: win
Locale: de-CH (de_CH); UI: de-DE
Calc: threaded

on the linux system:
Screenshot at 2024-11-15 10-23-51

Writer is a very powerful application. It contains complex and advanced features allowing for very sophisticated formatting and layout. This is where it is overwhelming.

I suggest you start by reading the Writer Guide. Unfortunately it will give you “only” tips to use the program. It does not emphasise enough its “philosophy” based on styles. Styles are a collection of formatting directives/attributes given a name for reuse. Styles have several categories to control all aspects of a document:

  • paragraph style: “geometry” (spacing, indents, alignment, borders, background, …) and basic “default” character properties
  • character style: font properties (face, size, variant, …), colour, background, border
    Can be used to override default paragraph properties on a word to highlight it
  • page style: geometry (margins, columns, …), header and footer, footnote area, …
  • frame style: position of inserted graphics and interaction with text
  • list style: this category is difficult to understand because the name is not ideal; describes how a number or bullet is positioned relative to the paragraph
    It is a “decoration” to add to a paragraph or paragraph style.

Using Writer requires a change of mind: you must stop thinking in terms of typographical attributes and start considering styles as a “semantic markup” denoting the value or significance you give to the object (paragraph, word, page, …). You set the look separately by customising the styles (in principle without modifying your text).

I chose 2.20cm and 2.50cm in my answer. This is only an example of the distance (trying to interpret the value of your 2.20cm indent). Change these values to your liking. The 0.3cm may be too small if you have 2-digit numbers (don’t forget the final dot) and would make the tab to jump wildly to the next implicit one.

This is an unfortunate consequence of the present mess. As I wrote previously, I could not get rid of it. Working on your new sample, I found a way:

  1. right-click on Quellen 1-Spalte paragraph style name and Edit
  2. go to the Outline & List tab
  3. set List style to No List
  4. press Apply
  5. revert List style to Numbering 123
  6. press OK

Your lists should now be correctly aligned. Do the same on Quellen 2-Spalte style.

Contrary to what I wrote, I think you should have a separate numbering style for Quellen 2-Spalte because it is used in 2-column context and the 2.5cm indent may be too large.

1 Like

nice! the last 6-steps worked for the 1-column source reference points just fine.

the “one” problem now is; how to set up the source reference points for the 2-column paragraph style ( Quellen 2-Spalte). i tried to set the numbers for the indents in this paragraph lower than on the 1-column paragraph style ( Quellen 1-Spalte) but it seems like it’s just always take the list style Numbering 123 (Outline & List tab) from the 1-column layout. even when i set the numbers to 0 it moves the indents far into the column. i deleted the paragraph styles and created one from scratch, but this didnt solve the problem unfortunately. is there a way, to have different indent settings for the different paragraph styles?

here is a screenshot of the 2-column layout:

and here a new version of the file:
Vorlage Mehrseitiges Dok DE-v18-NEU.odt (847.5 KB)

cheers

Your list items were at level 4 not level 1. Therefore, level-4 settings applied.

To demote your list items back to level 1, put the cursor at the very beginning of the item and press Ctrl+Shift+Tab three times.

The settings for level 1 will then take effect.

Remark: change your tab stop from 0cm (because when the number is created you’re already past this position and you’ll stop on the next implicit stop) to set it to the same value as Indent at. Keeping both at 0 results in a not so nice look for wrapping items.

1 Like

thank you. i couldnt get it done by be resetting it to level 1 with the shortcut. instead, i just set the indents on 1-4 level for each paragraph style (with individual settings for 1-column and 2-column) to the same amount and for now it seems to work just fine.