References lost during conversion to Global Document

Good day,

I recently split a very large illustrated document into 3 part documents and now continue to manage it as a global doc. First time I do that.

The original volume contains many cross references to chapters or pictures. Those were broken during the split-up in both global and part documents. I was able to reassign the references within a single part doc, thus restoring them also to the GD. The dt. Nummernkreise (number loops?) (Fig., Tab.) run smoothely through the entire GD.

References though that (would) target marks in different part documents remain broken:

This is what the text should look like:

although the tighter ones are prone to miss-strikes (→ Fig. 91, Chapter 17.4.c.I).

This is what it actually looks like:

although the tighter ones are prone to miss-strikes (→ Fig. Error: Reference not found, Chapter Error: Reference not found).

This is the capture for the figure in question, here the numbers are restored:

Fig. 91: Creasing 2 – Ball-peen hammer. Does the job for genereously spaced creases.

Field Commands → Cross References → Figure → [edit: Category and Number, Chapter]
Field Commands → Variable → Nummernkreis → Figure; Value: Figure+1

Is there a way to set references between different partial documents?

Best Regards,
Indi
Armouring Guide1.odt (95.2 KB)
Armouring Guide2.odt (23.9 KB)

No enough information to give advice and even less answers.

What is your “global document”? A master document in Writer parlance (which allows to glue together several sub-documents)? A master document had extension .odm while ordinary documents (and sub-docs) have extension .odt.

With master+subs, it is possible to have cross-documents references, though individual documents, if edited separately, will still show the error.

Don’t forget to mention your OS name and LO version.

Hello ajlittoz.

I operate on Windows 8.1. LO version 6.4.6.2 (x64).
The GO is an .odm. When I open it it lets me read, but not within itself edit, the 3 .odt documents it merges.

With master+subs, it is possible to have cross-documents references

This sounds promising… Anything else You need?
Best, Indi

Could you prepare a master with 2 subdocs? Each subdoc at most 1 page with reference definition and if possible a cross-reference to the other one. Attach to the question and I’ll have a look at it.

Here’s the Global Document. (Can only put 2 links in a post.)

Armouring Guide.odm (41.3 KB)

Sorry, I was over confident in my previous book editing and gave you false hope.

There is a contorted way to insert the cross-references you’d like but the outcome doesn’t survive close and reopen. I checked that the issue could be related to forward references but even backward references break.

According to your footer, your document is ~300 pages long. This is perfectly acceptable for Writer. My technical documents are ~200-pages long and I have no problem when scrolling through. They are “complex” compared to the average structure presented by users of this site.

What could create issues with yours is the number of graphical entities. I noticed that you created them directly in Writer as shapes. This is not a good idea. You should manage all your illustration in Draw where you have more versatile and powerful tools to do that. A single odg file may contain many illustrations eventually spread over several pages. You select one illustration, the components of which could optionally be grouped to make a single object, you copy it and paste it into Writer.

Presently, your illustration and its caption are not linked. This means you can move the illustration while the caption remains where it is. This is bad. After pasting from Draw, select the illustration and Insert>Caption. Both will be put in a frame and remain for ever together. In addition, frames can be styled (frame styles) which simplifies positioning and formatting of all illustrations of the same category.

If you find scrolling is too slow when working on the text part of your document, you can temporarily disable image display with Tools>Options, LibreOffice Writer>View. Untick Images & objects and Drawing & controls. CAUTION! this doesn’t work if you created graphics material directly in Writer (e.g. using the Writer drawing tools; OK if coming from Draw).

As a general rule, simplify your document structure to avoid putting strain on Writer. This means you must have a consistent and sufficient set of styles (this is mandatory on a 300-pages document). Start by customising built-in styles because they have names hinting at their usage. In your case, you have too much direct-formatting: vertical spacing is done with empty paragraphs and they are not all same style. Vertical spacing can be implemented with a property of a paragraph style. You apply manual formatting on Default Paragraph Style. This style should never be used for any text in a document; its only role is to provide attributes shared by all other styles (your user defaults). The quotation “Where there is desire …” should be styled Quotations.

When a word needs to be emphasised, use a character style like built-in Emphasis or Strong Emphasis. Don’t apply bold manually.

Similarly don’t space horizontally with space characters because the width of a space character varies depending on justification. You’ve done that in the TOC structure between the markers. It won’t give what you expect because the width of the numbers are not all the same. Your headings won’t line up. Instead, use tabs and customise the Contents n paragraph styles.

Mark up your text with styles, paragraph and character. This way, you convey your author point of view to the text and, with styles, you can do very smart formatting. You configure the styles to get the nicest look. Don’t think first in bold, italic, colour, font face or size first. Think in significance. Typographical attributes come next as a consequence of significance. Doing it the other way round will lead to formatting nightmare and prevent you from tuning the appearance of your book.

Styles reflect the significance of paragraphs and words. Therefore, the book title should be styled Title instead of default with manual center, bold and font size. The subtitle should be Subtitle. Contributors name should go into a Contributors-styled paragraph (custom style to be created).

Don’t set references in header and footer. You have done so for “Table of Contents”. The problem is header is duplicated on all pages of the same style. Therefore, what is the exact location of the reference? Writer chooses one but this is not defined in the specification. Such a reference should be set on the heading of the TOC so that the position is uniquely defined. You can still insert a reference to it in the chapter headers with a hyperlink to get a quick transfer to the TOC.

This probably means you work on laptop already a few years old. And I think that the performance pushed you on the master+subs approach. If you streamline your document structure, removing the harmful empty paragraph and direct-formatting, adopting a strict styling strategy, you should be able to overcome performance limitation to some extent. The key to success is to avoid superfluous non significant object in Writer (empty paragraphs account for a lot). The more your document is automated through styles, the easier it is to manage it. And a 300-pages document can’t humanely be managed without styles.

ajlittoz, thank You most kindly for all the work You put in. There are things in it for me to learn. I’ll try to address the points…

You are right, my system is from 2014. If it were only text, yes, writer can nowadays do it. There are, as of yet, a total of 126. illustrations and 26 tables distributed over the document. Near every page holds an illustration, some only that. I noticed that drawings jumped around the doc, appearing tacked to others drawings, overlapping them, on sites far from where they should be anchored. Sometimes they simply disappeared, although they were still in the doc…soemwhere. Hidden. This was what prompted the port to a global doc and subdocs.

This was not my intention, and I do not know how they ended up as “shapes” (I think that’s an actual thing in writer, usually in the guise of squares, lines or so. I created ALL drawings either in LO Draw and grouped them via RIGHT-CLICK → Convert to Metafile. Because, as opposed to real "RIGHT-CLICK → group"s, I can not accidentally double click, enter and edit them in Writer. They are more stable to work with. Some drawings are .jpegs though, compressed to a few 100kb and dragged into position.

Can I optimize that?

I’ll play around with it. Maybe I can get it to look like it does now…

Thank You! That’ll come in handy.

I’ll search the text for such paragraphs and take them out. I attached another text example with empty paragraphs in it. At present I do not see how to avoid them by editing the List or text preset. Would You explain that further?
Armouring Guide3.odt (43.2 KB)

I will try to do that in all the captions and table descriptions, where the first few words are always manual bold.

I’ll try to change it. Replace spaces with tabs, right? I’ll see…

I did that so as to always, whereever I am in the doc, have a quick and easy way to return to my TOC when I restructure the book, which has happened quite a few times to greater or lesser extent. Is this reference harmful? Or is there a better way?

Thank You!! So long.

Since your questions are now specific to your document and may not be of interest to the community, I propose we continue on private mail. Click on my name, then message me.

So to conclude this thread, at least for now, I should rather try to get the original, continuous document stable than convert it into a GO and subdocs? At least if I want to keep those references…

I think this is the most reasonable approach, considering the requirement about cross-subdocument mutual references…

If you are not faint of heart, you can also switch your laptop to Linux. You’ll get a 2× performance boost (from personal experience). And this can be done without losing your Windows. You just need to shrink a bit the existing partitions to make room for the Linux OS partitions. You can keep your data in your present home directory (though I don’t recommend it for reliability reason).