Unclear documentation regarding master slides, layouts and templates

[Genom]

Hi,

I am a bit confused regarding the roles of master slides, slide layouts, styles and templates. They all have overlapping purposes but seem to be entangled with each other in different ways. Let’s start with the simplest one: styles. It is clear that we can set styles and use throughout our document right? Well not really. That’s the promise but you will see how confusing it gets… Users seem to be confused regarding their scope. e.g. they are contained within a file, which we don’t see in the user guide.

Templates… they are “a special type of presentation that you can use as a basis…”. But how does that differ than a normal presentation file (ODP)? I can as well have an ODP file and use it as a template. What does this type provide me different than ODP? Or are they simple for the startup dialog to make user’s choice of template easier?

Let’s continue… Master slides… It is for a beginner quite unclear what their scope is and how they also differ from layouts. When I am creating a master slide, I seem to be able to play with the layout. But not quite, as I can’t even delete some auto layout fields. They are also contained in the file as it appears. Now the best part is that their styles are not unified. Meaning, when I change the Title style in one master slide, other master slides using the same style remain unchanged! This is quite frustrating. I have to change all Title styles in each master slide one-by-one. What was the purpose of styles again?

Finally, layouts… all the three topics above can be created/changed by the user. Layouts seem to be special and again not so obviously explained anywhere (AFAIK). One can’t simply create and change layouts. But they can be applied to master slides and slides. I wonder why? Is it simply a good starting point for a new slide? If yes, why is it so strongly tied to a slide? Meaning, I can pick a layout for a new slide, but then that slide does not need to be tied to that layout, since it can be changed.

All in all, it is quite confusing and not so well documented. I lack the logic behind these features and how they differentiate, what their use cases are. I also want to contribute the documentation efforts. But first, it is perhaps better to provoke a discussion. I know that I asked a lot of questions above.

Edit: I am not sure actually, if layouts can be applied to master slides. All options are disabled in the master view.

[Genom]

@Stokpan

Use the navigator > master slides. When you change the master slide your entire slide will be modified.

Do you mean the entire presentation? Or slides across presentations?

@Stokpan

There’s a confusion about Master Slides. You are not supposed to be using a lot of master slides in a presentation. Most good presentations use one or two master slides. People are supposed to be looking at the title, the image and your description. These are not supposed to be changed a lot during a presentation.

I understand. But shouldn’t they share the styles in a document? If they are document specific, why is LO keeping track of styles with the same name but diverge from each other? This is an unexpected behaviour even in Impress.

@Stokpan

What was the purpose of styles again?

Admittedly very small in Impress. It’s not a word processor.

I actually like them. My biggest problem at LO is that the default font Liberation Sans is quite ugly. It is the most disliked thing at LO for me (even though I can change it). But it is frustrating to make a large presentation and having to change all the fonts one-by-one. Styles are great for this kind of a thing, even for Impress. But with master slides, they lose the meaning.

@Stokpan

Layouts are mostly automated and are supposed to be a quick fix / substitute for master slides. Not everyone has the time or knowledge to create master slides for their presentation.

So layouts are behind the scene master slides, set as a quickly accessible constant? Because their role is slightly different. Those object areas for auto-layouts… do they have some semantic function? I guess, that for more structures presentations, they can be quite useful to tract text flow.

[Stokpan]

Modifying a master slide will affect all slides that are based on it in the current presentation. If you modify a master slide on a template, any X presentation that’s templated on it will be updated once you open X and select yes on the dialog that appears.

My point about styles is that they are too limited in Impress. I personally use outlines for the purpose of styling which gives me a structural approach as well, but I’d prefer to have the power of styles I have in Writer.

frustrating to make a large presentation and having to change all the fonts one-by-one.

It is, which is why it’s best to work with templates and use few master slides. Really there’s no presentation I can think of that needs more than 3 master slides at most. Usually a single master will suffice.

do [layouts] have some semantic function?

No, but I personally have made my master slide to be as compatible with them as possible. I like the quick flexibility they offer.

[Stokpan]

Templates… they are “a special type of presentation that you can use as a basis…”. But how does that differ than a normal presentation file (ODP)?

When you open a file that’s templated on a modified template, you have the option to update the file which is pretty useful.

Master slides… It is for a beginner quite unclear what their scope is and how they also differ from layouts.

Use the navigator > master slides. When you change the master slide your entire slide will be modified.

I can’t even delete some auto layout fields.

Just move them out of the page. I was able to delete them but I decided to just move them out of my master slide because I couldn’t get them back. They won’t affect anything when they are out of the page area in a master slide and you won’t see them in your normal editing.

when I change the Title style in one master slide, other master slides using the same style remain unchanged!

There’s a confusion about Master Slides. You are not supposed to be using a lot of master slides in a presentation. Most good presentations use one or two master slides. People are supposed to be looking at the title, the image and your description. These are not supposed to be changed a lot during a presentation.

What was the purpose of styles again?

Admittedly very small in Impress. It’s not a word processor.

One can’t simply create and change layouts.

Layouts are mostly automated and are supposed to be a quick fix / substitute for master slides. Not everyone has the time or knowledge to create master slides for their presentation.

[gacuxz]

It looks like document (except Writer), created from a template does not update automatically anymore if template is edited because of a bug: Template change isn’t applied to presentation.

Edit:
from this post it looks like function is working, but only if you create a document from template using File>New>Template. It’s a bit confusing.

[ajlittoz]

It is not confusing.

If you open a template like an ordinary document (double-click on its icon or File>Open), you immediately get a blank document (Writer, Calc, …). The template origin is lost.

On the contrary, File>New>Templates clearly informs the current application you want to keep a link with the template.

No approach is faulty. They both have their justification: it depends on your purpose. I admit the documentation is not crystal-clear about the differences. It took me long to discover what happens behind the scene and how I could make use of it to my advantage.

[gacuxz]

I still have a problem using Master slides in a template: updating already created documents (from that template) after editing styles in that same template proceeds incorrectly. To reproduce:

• In an empty Impress document I go to the Master slide. The styles of default slide fields can’t be changed using Drawing Styles section, it can only be changed using Presentation Styles section. So I change font and color of a Title element to red and save file as a template File>Templates>Save as Template... to My templates category.
• Create New Document from this template using File>New>Template, edit the title and save the file.
• Edit the template changing font and color once again to green and just press Save>Close
• Opening the New Document asks me if I want to update the styles and after pressing Update Styles the Title resets the font to default and color to black.

Some more testing

Tried doing the same using different menus, but this always performed the same. Tried creating more master slides in a template, and more normal slides in a document - this brought even more confusion: it looks like the style of the first frame always resets to default, while other slides keeps it’s style but is not updated from a template.

Am I’m doing something wrong or is this some kind of limitation?

[ajlittoz]

Please attach the template and the presentation document. I’ll have a look at the internal XML.

What are your OS and exact LO version?

[gacuxz]

tmp2.otp (13.8 KB)
test_nu2.odp (12.1 KB)

Garuda Linux with KDE Plasma 6.5.4 (based on Arch Linux)
LibreOffice v25.8.4.2 (X86_64)

Thank you very much.

[ajlittoz]

There is probably a structural bug in Impress.

Looking at the internal XML, the title frame is styled Default-title in the template. This seems to correspond to text style Title (this name is highlighted once you click inside the title frame.

The document itself is correctly linked to the template. But contrary to Writer, styling information is not explicitly included on “shapes” which compose a slide. It seems to rely on implicit conventions related to attributes like presentation:class="title" where obviously we don’t read Default-title.

In the initial document, style Default-title is identical to its descriptor in the template. After style update, Default-title is no longer identical and loses many attributes, e.g. fo:color which explains why text reverts to black.

IMHO something is broken. Submit a bug report.