Writer saved in Windows version is distorted in Linux version

[decrepit]

I have a writer document saved in the windows 10 version of writer. When opened in the Mint version of writer there is a funny squiggle in front of all the bullets. it looks a bit like the urdu font.

How do I get rid of these squiggles?

Thanks ajlittoz,
And it’s not bullets, it’s check boxes!
Sorry brain fade is unusually active at the moment.
The windows 10 version is 7.2.5.2, the linux mint version is 6.4.7.2

These two images are both saved from the same file with libre office on the windows 10 machine then copied to the linux machine. the image on the right is a PDF and is exactly the same as the original. the image on the left is a ,odt also saved on the windows 10 machine from the original. If saved in a word format it’s the same. I believe the original was created in microsoft word, that was before my time.
As it’s a check sheet meant to be filed in by pencil, the PDF solution will work until we need to modify the sheet.
So the solution isn’t urgent, but it would be very nice to know what is going on

Just re read your post, I went to the office to get these pics, but didn’t get the file itself. I’ll do that tomorrow

[ajlittoz]

Edit your question to mention LO version.
Depending on how you created your list items, many phenomena may have occurred. Your question is not descriptive enough. Best thing is to attach a sample file with the symptom for analysis.

[decrepit]

So I’ve now got the file itself.
2021 Induction Manual.docx (322.2 KB)
But the plot thickens. On this computer I’m typing on now, I have two flavours of mint 20.3 Mate and Cinnamon both have Libre Office version 6.4.7.2. Using Mate there is no problem but with cinnamon there is. So looks like the problem may be a cinnamon thing. I’ll see what the mint forum has to say. I’ll get back here with any progress.

[mikekaganski]

The document uses a lot of proprietary fonts. This is a list from the document’s font table:

• Courier New
• Times New Roman
• Wingdings
• Symbol
• Cambria
• MS Mincho
• Lucida Grande
• MinionPro-Regular
• Helvetica
• Times
• Arial Black
• Phosphate-Inline
• Arial-BoldMT
• ArialMT
• MonotypeSorts
• Arial
• Webdings
• MS Gothic
• Calibri

Whenever any font used in a document is absent on a system, LibreOffice (as well as most other software) tries to find a substitution font.

Some of the fonts are “known” to LibreOffice (e.g., Calibri) - so it can suggest an open alternative with same metrics, and - provided that that open font is installed - the text using those fonts will look reasonably well. But others are matched based on a guess - and likely give you some substitute fonts with different metrics, resulting in different layout.

What’s worse: sometimes documents “use” a specific font, that may also be present on another system; but the actual text using that font includes some characters that are absent in the font. That would produce some substitution on both the original system, and on another system - but the substitution results could be different on the two systems because of different installed font sets.

Specifically, on your screenshot, the boxes use Wingdings, and the respective list item text uses ArialMT

A general rule: when a document looks different when open on a different system: the first thing to check is if the necessary fonts are installed.

[ajlittoz]

You announced an .odt document and you provide a .docx, i.e. a M$ Word document which is not in native Writer format. Consequently, there is a conversion when you open the file and the conversion brings in its lot of idiosyncrasies. And again another conversion when you save the document. This alone is enough to bias any analysis.

Your document is direct formatting practically everywhere. This means it is extremely vulnerable to any difference in computer/OS/font customisation.

You have set negative (and inconsistent) paragraph indents causing them to extend inside the page margins. Page margins are defined as no print areas in Writer (at least for the main text flow). If you want wider text, decrease page margins (and set paragraph indents to zero) and keep text where it should be.

Don’t vertically space your text with empty paragraphs and line breaks. This will always play nasty tricks on your back. For example, as I have none of the document fonts, substitutions are used and the document general layout is completely messed up.

Use the Heading n family of styles for your document outline. It can number headings automatically too, avoiding a manual tedious job. Also, when headings are so styled, the TOC can be constructed automatically.

Distorted "check boxes"
The glyphs used for the boxes are U+F020, U+F06F and U+F078, all contained in the Unicode Private Use Area. 3Private" means the area is not standardised by Unicode and any font designer can use it for whatever purpose. Inserting such characters in a document requires a prior agreement between author and reader. Such usage is not portable. Notably, when fonts are substituted there is no guarantee that the PUA will be configured at all and when filled that the glyphs will be identical.

The PUA is known to be used in the Window$ world as a “compatibility” area for legacy code page xxx (CPxxx) fonts. These Micro$oft font, predating Unicode, contain 256 characters, the first 128 of which are the ASCII character set. The last 128 characters are moved to the PUA when the font is converted to Unicode encoding.

• your document is based on legacy fonts: convert it to use normalised Unicode, e.g. U+2610 BALLOT BOX. You can find various symbols for checkboxes in the U+2600 or U+2700 (Dingbats) blocks.
• get rid of converted legacy fonts and install Unicode-compliant fonts
• review your document
• save in native .odt format

[decrepit]

@ajlittoz ,
It looks like this document was originally made on an apple device, then saved as an MS Word doc.
I have no office experience, so learning to reproduce it from scratch, will take a while.
(but I’ll have a go, as it’s probably the best solution)
I sent the Word doc as that is the original, but the .odt version saved from the word doc on the windows 10 machine behaves the same on both machines.

My main point is that the windows and Mate version of LO displays correctly but the Cinnamon version doesn’t. Even though the Cinnamon and Mate version are identical, and the same fonts are installed in Cinnamon and Mate. The linux forum is now also involved in this as it no longer seems to be a L.O problem
https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?f=47&t=377414

[ajlittoz]

After reading your LinuxMint post, I give you some clarification you should report to them.

there’s an added squiggle in front of every check box, that looks a bit like it comes from an Indian font.

Not exactly. Every “checkbox” is made of two glyphs: U+F06F followed by U+F020. It is then likely that U+F06F is rendered by an empty glyph in your MATE configuration and by some shape in Cinnamon.

To make things worse, U+F06F is taken from Wingdings 14pt font while U+F020 comes from MonotypeSorts 18pt. The difference in size shows this is intentional.

And as already mentioned, since the characters are hosted in PUA, I can’t guess which glyph was looked for.

You could have good clues if you could trace back the document history. If the first version is 20 years old, this could explain the issue (at that date, Unicode was not already ubiquitous and 256-character sets were very common, both on Mac and PC). AS I wrote in a previous comment, the upper 128 characters of 256-sets are simply shifted into the beginning of the PUA. If you installed “recent” fonts on your Cinnamon machine, based only on the name, you installed Unicode-compliant fonts with an empty PUA. You might have simply copied compatibility fonts on the other machines. So, even if the font utility reports the same named fonts are present, they may not be the same contents: you may have a converted legacy font where “it works” and a pure Unicode where it does not.

[decrepit]

Thanks again ajlittoz, I’ve posted your message in the mint forum.
Here’s what the doc properties says.

[EarnestAl]

I have an ancient version (1995) of Monotype Sorts and the original symbol, before it was probably converted to Wingdings, was the one in the first line below. In Monotype Sorts font, it was entered with the letter o

The second line is OpenSymbol font character Lower right drop-shadowed white square, U+274f ❏ which seems an almost exact replacement in a current font.

[decrepit]

U+274f is a unicode symbol.
I’ve just learnt if you type the hex number in, ie, 274f then press Alt x
the shaded box appears.
I’m now using the basic box U+6210 ☐

Thanks guys, this has been a great learning exercise.

[decrepit]

Thanks @mikekaganski , that makes sense, so Cinnamon is missing a font that Mate has. I’ll try and rectify that and get back.
I’m now confident that Cinnamon has all the fonts that Mate has, but the problem is still there.

I copied the text box symbol in both versions, and pasted in xed. this is how they look.

So fonts do seem to be the problem, but they both have the same versions installed.