Do you find some fields not adding up in Calc because the formatting was somehow altered?

English
#1

Honestly I find so many illogical things in Calc. Is MS Excel more logical? I could write an encyclopedia on Calc’s deficiencies after using it for a few months. I’d love to make it work properly. Is this typical or am I just dumb with spreadsheets? Like so many conventions we’re used to in Word or text programs don’t work in Calc even though they could. So often I start typing in a field and the formatting is different for no logical reason. Obviously I’ve changed it somehow by copying and pasting something into it. I’m trying to always paste unformatted to minimize this from happening.

Today I noticed one column’s SUM didn’t look right and sure enough 2 of the fields weren’t being included in the =SUM(A1:A5) formula. I subtracted the Calc SUM from what it should be and found them and entered them manually and all was well. There should be a way of pasting things without changing formatting. Isn’t that obvious to any sane person? If the whole spreadsheet is in a set format why would anyone want to change that when pasting info into it? It’s like this program was designed by crazy people with no semblance of logic.

All the time a column’s formatting will change as well, especially in terms of alignment when pasting stuff. Drives me nuts. Obviously a column should retain it’s alignment!!!

Is there really no option to retain formatting when pasting other than always pasting unformatted text which isn’t as fast?

Spreadsheets are a miraculous idea. Now to get them to work well. I admit I’m a newer user and am learning things all the time whereas I’ve been using text based software for decades. They should really teach spreadsheets in high school. Few things could be more useful in life for keeping track of things.

#2

Please start it. We always love to improve. Just make sure there is no lack of knowledge of the tool.

Excel? No idea, here we do who hasn’t used it again in more than a decade.

#3

Judging from the points you mention: No, not at all. A lot of this is exactly the same, wich is useful if you create sheets, wich should also work in Excel.
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Once upon a time Excel and other spreadsheets were sold as separate program. And nobody cared much to be consistent with something like Word.

#4

Once upon a time Excel and other spreadsheets were sold as separate program. And nobody cared much to be consistent with something like Word.

This explains a lot. And it makes perfect sense. Why alter something if you don’t have to? Human nature. When these programs first emerged they probably didn’t have any idea how integrated they would get in the future. Or they didn’t realize how useful these programs would be to everyone. Calc should really try to follow conventional aspects of text programs. It would streamline a lot for new users. They do somewhat of course. The biggest issue I see is formatting changes within a document. Drives you nuts. You start typing in a new field and it’s all different. There should be a setting that just stops that by default. They do this with many text programs. You copy text from one program at 50 Verdana font and paste it and it becomes 10 Consolas mono-spaced and looks perfect. Because the destination is 10 Consolas so why would you want anything different?

I’m so glad I found this forum. Of course they don’t call it a forum like everyone else! And there’s nothing in the URL indicating anything about it except the title of the post other than “ask”! Everyone else would title it
forums.libreoffice.org
like logical people. :slight_smile:

#5

They don’t call it a forum because it isn’t a forum; it is question and answer site which is a different thing. Q&A software - Wikipedia

#6

Query your own logic.

There are problems with your “central” settings for people (like me) who do a lot of different things. Every time I switch projects I would have to change all necessary settings. (No problem, we call it profiles now and generate the next problem how to sync my stuff between profiles.) The other problem is the number of settings to be managed by new users to, so they are hidden in big menues, Tools>options, “expert configs” …
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For LibreOffice Writer, Calc etc. you should create templates and style them, before you start. But you are free to start without plan as WYSIWIG was invented years ago and we have now much more space on screens (on desktops) for buttons and toolbars. But then don’t be surprised when some ignored basic setting is still found in seemingly empty cells (or paragraph settings).
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Maybe databases… And set up properly they even ignore the formatting of stuff you copy in like a text editor.
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And speaking of logic. Why would a software to “keeping track of things” be named Calc. You already told “It’s like this program was designed by crazy people with no semblance of logic.”, but maybe they just follow other priorities and expressed this with a little hint in the name.

1 Like
#7

What is obvious to me is that this phrase makes it unclear, which formatting should be kept unchanged: of the destination, or of the source.

It seems that you have a very narrow perception of the needs of people. People want to keep the source formatting slightly less than always (the more expert the user is, the more often they paste unformatted, which means, that most users - who are the basic users - expect formatting of the source to stay; and there are tasks requiring formatting to be kept regardless of the user expertise).

In general, the idea that it’s as simple as making Writer from Calc is naive. Calc is designed to work primarily with numbers. It includes a vast range of tasks not relevant to Writer (and vice versa). It covers insanely different needs of users from different backgrounds and areas - like statisticians, accountants, analytics, mathematicians, programmers, just a casual users wanting to do some basic calculations, or people misusing Calc as a database, and you-just-can’t-imagine-who-else. It has to actively detect numbers in user input, and at the same time, provide means to work with text, and allow formatting - both static and dynamic, both direct and styled. And it must handle millions of cells, and at the same time, still be fast (which is very difficult).

The “discussions” like here are basically useless. If you want to have a fruitful discussion (even if you disagree to learn first, or to accept the possibility of an unimaginable event that people may think differently and have different needs, and still be logical and not crazy), you could provide a specific issue (not a range of “formatting + formula not counting + site name”), with a specific steps for others to see what you are talking about (maybe with example document; maybe with screenshots and screencasts, and with specific mouse click / key press sequence), your expectations, the actual results, and after that, maybe your reasoning why your way should be The Only One.

On the other hand, I see I already reacted to your “I know the truth” style. Some people never learn. I totally agree with @Wanderer here.

#8

Do you find some fields not adding up in Calc because the formatting was somehow altered?
No. (See below.)

No. (At least not any option which is more practical, AFAIK)

“Retain formatting” is always a choice between retaining source formatting vs. retaining the format of target (preformatted cells). Ctrl-Shift-V then Enter is only slightly slower than Ctrl-V, as long as you don’t need to use sticky modifier keys. The first “paste special” may also require you to select options as required, but your selection should stick on the next paste-special.

“Not adding up” is usually caused not by formatting, but by non numeric data type (i.e. text data in current Calc context). If the clipboard content is copied from another spreadsheet (or other data application which discerns between data types), the data type will be carried over, independently from format, as a “paste suggestion” to Calc. This is not very different from other spreadsheets.
Calc will try to interpret numeric text as number only in explicit formulas (=A1+B1), but assume zero when referenced by formulas which accept sets/ranges of cells (=SUM(A1:B1) ). Again, other spreadsheet apps do the same.

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