Indent Not Consistent In Outline List

English
#1

I have a document in Writer Version: 7.4.7.2 / LibreOffice Community
Build ID: 40(Build:2)
CPU threads: 4; OS: Linux 6.1; UI render: default; VCL: gtk3
Locale: en-US (en_US.UTF-8); UI: en-US
Debian package version: 4:7.4.7-1+deb12u9
Calc: threaded

When I select Format>Lists>Ordered List, I get an indent and the number 1. I right-click and choose List>Bullets and Numbering from the context menu. I then select the Outline tab and the third from the left at the top of the displayed types.

There is a nice consistent space between each line number and the text in that line. But when I get to number 10, the spacing between the number and the text jumps to approximately six spaces.

Why does the spacing of the indent jump at number 10 and how to I fix it?

Thanks.

#3

The quick and dirty answer is to click Format > Bullets and Numbering > Customise. In the Level pane, select 1-10, then under Separator, delete the space in the field Before. OK.

That will allow the list to go to 99 before the numbers jump to the next tab mark at 100. I am not sure why there is a space in that field in the first place, best to delete it anyway.

The better answer is, of course, the one given by @ajlittoz

#4

Yours is by far the easiest method for this programming flaw. However, I did not have a section entitled “Level pane, select 1-10”. I only have:
Number:
Start at:
Character style:
Show sublevels:
Separator
Before:
After:
All Levels

Thanks.

#5

Select 1 - 10
Outline1-10

Note that the full stop after the number finishes at level 5; this would be a good time to add it for the entire list although you are unlikely ever to go beyond level 5.

#6

Oh, so I’ve found another flaw. I did not recognize it. Here’s what my dialog box says:
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
1-

#7

@ajlittoz’ answer is of course the authoritative solution.

Some people (myself included) find it more visually appealing when list numbering is right aligned to the tab position, instead of the left alignment most word processing tools default to. Spacing between number and list item is then constant. This also eliminates the text shift issue discussed here, which is why I find it pertinent to mention in this context.

As far as I can tell, both APA and CMOS (Chicago) style guides leave numbering alignment for the author to decide in numbered lists (probably because it influences aesthetics more than readability/clarity). I haven’t looked into other style guides.

Finer adjustment in the list style may be required to make the list look good. Those adjustments are mostly concerning measures for indent vs. tab stop position(s).

When right aligning the number, it extends to the left as it grows. Some thought should go into settings, in particular for very long lists or when using Roman numerals. You probably don’t want numbering to protrude into the margin area.

#9

EarnestAl, I was able to select the one that shows 1-. I believe this is the one you were referencing. The first thing that happens is that the Number: line changes from 1, 2, 3, … to a blank field. When I looked at the options under the Separator section, I found that there were no entries. So I selected a period in the After field.

This then properly aligns the line indents, but it also changes the list format. When I change the format back to my outline choice, the settings revert back to the wrong layout once again.

There really is no consistency in this system. Changing one thing changes something else that is not even related to the focused action. It is very confusing.

(BTW, my current outline goes thru 79.)

#10

@Jonny What you experience is one of the “glitches” caused by the “one-size-fits-all” syndrome of the clumsy compatibility role of Format>Bullets & Numbering. To be able to customise lists so created, you must be a real expert guru (due to the massive direct formatting induced by the command). I consider it is not worth it. There is an “access fee” to master list styles, but compared to the problems of Format>Bullet & Numbering, I consider this is a valuable learning investment.

Reserve Format>Bullets & Numbering for quick’n’dirty disposable documents where you accept unconditionally what is provided.

#11

Right alignment of number requires small changes in list style configuration:

  • Aligned at is now the right limit of the number instead of its left limit; the distance must be offset a bit to the right in such amount that the widest number (and its decorators) does not overflow in the margin
  • Alignment must be set to Right (this parameter tells on which side of the number the Aligned at reference is located
  • Indent at is adjusted to leave enough room for the number (anyway Indent at > Aligned at)
  • and, as always Tab stop at is set equal to Indent at for nice layout of (multi-line) items
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#12

That is correct. You chose Outline so that has different numbering for different levels; it can’t display all so it displays none (blank). Don’t touch any field that you do not want the same for every level when 1 - 10 is selected. Try again but refrain from the temptation to alter any other fields than Before and After.

Invisibility is one of the attributes of a space. Simple insert your cursor into the Before field and press Backspace then press Delete

Adding a period into the After field will give every level a period after the numbering character. If you chose an Outline that has a parenthesis after the numbering character on some levels, then entering a period will overwrite those levels. In this case you chose an Outline with a period at every level up till 5

#13

But the outline ‘style’ is lost after making a change. It reverts to a number list.

#14

That is the Outline with tooltip Numeric, it looks like a numbered list. If you want a different outline then you would need to make the relevant modifications in that list.

Here is a sample of a list style My Outline linked to a paragraph style List 1. You could use that as a starting point
StyledListInParagraphStyle.odt (18.4 KB)

#15

Then I guess I am more confused. If the context menu option does not work, is there another as easy? Why are outlines separate from that section, and yet still on another tab on the same dialog box? There appears no reasoning or logic to it. In fact, it is downright misleading.

#16

You didn’t say it wasn’t working; it works OK here.

Outlines are not separate. If you change the settings in the Customise tab then it changes the settings of the selected layout. It is the point of the Customise tab, to customise the layout to your desired settings.

I can only suggest that you read the relevant chapter in the Writer Guide, download the entire book from English documentation | LibreOffice Documentation - LibreOffice User Guides

Or you can provide a sample, click the icon with tooltip Upload to upload your sample.

#2

With Format>Lists>Ordered Lists, or more generically Format>Bullets & Numbering, you select an internal list style. A list style defines all geometric and numeric properties of the list decorator.

Also, a list style takes precedence on the left properties of the paragraph style, i.e. left indent and first line indent.

Your list item begins with the sequence number/bullet, a Tab, then the item list. The Tab will align the item on the left indent. Well, most of the time. If the width of the number (and its optional decorators) is larger than the left indent position, the Tab will align text on the next tab stop, either one you explicitly defined, or after the last explicit one on the next implicit evenly-spaced one.

This is what happens starting from 10 (2 digits vs. a single digit for 1-9). And it is not inconsistent.

How to fix it? I’d recommend you customise an existing built-in list style line Numbering 123 to adjust Tab stop at and Indent at (set to same distance) in Position tab and apply this modified style to your lists. This is preferable because Format>Bullets & Numbering is a tentative courtesy feature to mimic M$ Word clumsy equivalent “one-size-fits-all” feature but this comes with its load of tweaks which in fact make your life more difficult.

However, since understanding how list styles “cooperate” with paragraph styles and formatting is a bit difficult, you can try to modify the settings in Format>Bullets & Numbering exposed in Position tab. Do this while your cursor is inside your list. But be aware that the “one-size-fits-all” compatibility mode will play nasty tricks on your back when you have several lists. For maximum stability and reliabity, prefere to learn how to use list styles.

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