LO Writer and Math: How to Insert Formula in Right to Left Direction?

Hi Friends.

I surfed the Internet and no results.

In LO Math and LO Writer we can add Formula for math equations.

As we know there are languages its write direction is from Left to Right (LTR) and others from Right to left (RTL) like Arabic.

Arabic math also takes RTL Direction, with Arabic letters as variables and math symbols that match with RTL.

when I used LO Math and Writer to write equation (insert Formula) it takes only LTR direction. I do not know if there is a way to insert Formula in RTL direction!

In this picture I show you 3 things:

  1. Integration of a function I wrote it by (insert formula), using Arabic letters, the direction is wrong because it is (LTR).

  2. Integration of a function I wrote it by (Text boxes) Grouped together. each part has it is own text box even root sign. it is hard to use this method but it is what it should be as formula in Arabic.

  3. Integration of a function in Latin variables and symbols, I wrote it just to let you understand the formula that I want to write.

Is there a way to insert Formula in (Writer) or Using LO Math to write Equations from Right To Left?

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This is not an answer. It’s an attempt to start thinking about the question by writing down a few starting points.

  • Why is this question asked in a global forum in English?
  • How did RTL civilizations handle international cooperation in math-related sciences up to now?
  • What about cases of preferred TD writing, whether LTR or RTL on second level?
  • The Hebrew letter “aleph” was first introduced in the context of transfinite cardinals where ?
  • French, German… students of many sciences are mainly using literature in English.
  • They also write their theses in English.
  • ???
  • What’s bad with globally accepted standards?
  • How is the RTL environment handled for the formula syntax in spreadsheets?
  • At what times and based on what considerations were related decisions made in history?
  • What about bustrophedon?
  • Should we prepare for continuing history and development or for bringing it to a halt?

@Lupp

I will answer you generally.

I asked this question in the English section of (ask LibreOffice) because the Arabic section has not a lot of active members. most Arab knows and use MS Office. therefore I guess that someone will help!

about other points:
in Arabic countries we study math in Arabic (RTL) until secondary school!
at university we study math and physics in Latin (English) because most references are in English.

it is very important to us to study math in Arabic. it keeps our culture and tell students that Arabic is wonderful language and can carry math and other sciences as in the past.

some of what you had written is a kind of (hate of speech)!
I do not know why!
but we are here in the LibreOffice community to help each other, so we have to respect each other.

LibreOffice for all world.

I need help. nothing else.

I can’t speak for Lupp, of course (as I know him, he speaks very well for himself) but I don’t read his questions that way. Very direct and to the point, even provocative, but not hateful. To me, your note about culture preservation and promoting pride in your own heritage, and also about the transition from primary to secondary school, answers much of the questions posed. Again, speaking for myself and not for Lupp.

Thank you for that amount of background information!

For what it is worth, I have seen a few RTL initiatives connected to LaTeX in math context. Alas, I do not master any RTL script, so I have not delved into the matter. Combining this with a LibreOffice-LaTeX interface (which I know must exist) may be your path to success.

To this I cannot offer any better support than to wish you good luck with your efforts.

@keme1

Thank you!

I hope LibreOffice embed Arabic LaTeX!
but at this time I ask, maybe some one will guide me to add-ons or something can help me! maybe graphical application for LaTeX!

about Lupp:

Should we prepare for continuing history and development or for bringing it to a halt?

this was contempt to Arabic language.
anyway I do not want to discus this anymore, we are members in this Forum.

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This forum is composed of users, not developers. You can do more than hope, you can report an enhancement request, How to Report Bugs in LibreOffice - The Document Foundation Wiki .

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Further to @keme1 comment, as a workaround, you might try exporting the document (with Latin equations) to LaTex and then opening the file in in a LaTex editor that supports Arabic RTL equations and editing just the equations. A cursory search suggests XeLaTeX (XeTeX engine) or LuaLaTeX (LuaHBTeX engine) might be suitable.

The extension for export to Latex would be Writer2LaTex, Writer2LaTeX » Extensions

As a teacher of math and physics in Germany, I stressed, of course, that there were important contributions to math, astronomy, and any science by people from Arabic culture over centuries. Even the mathematical “books” from ancient Greece first came to us by Arab mediation (if they were saved at all) via the Iberian PI. (There also may have been some less welcome things coming that way.) We also teach that the term “Algebra” is derived from an Arab expression. Is that right?
I can’t see, however, in what way the respect for different cultures should require to support stubborn specifics endangering the basis for global cooperation. That teachers in countries using one or another variant of Arabic will teach their pupils in that language should be expected anyway, independent of whether that language is “wonderful” or not.

I completely disagree, but if anything I wrote was looking like “hate speech” to anybody, I strongly regret the effect even if being contrary to my intentions.
I don’t hate anything but nationalisms - using the term in the more generalizing way George Orwell introduced with his “Notes on Nationalism”. Only recently I started to reconsider if this can (must?) rightfully include to “hate” the criminal and despotic gamblers basing their power on any kind of nationalism. You can easily get a list of hundreds of them without excluding any “culture” that exists or existed in the world.

Agree.

Please also consider my opinion, that nobody can rightfully demand to get exactly what he (f/m) wanted and nothing else. After all there is context everywhere, and we need to also respect different weightings by different people insofar. The current state of the world isn’t as it should be, and every field of human activities should contribute to improvements.

Unfortunately you didn’t provide the Math formulas from your image containing Arabic script in a LibreOffice file. Therefore I couldn’t experiment with the elements. In very rare cases, and wasting a lot of time it might be a way, to create a kind of frame consisting of mathematical symbols (opertators, placements, …) as an OLE object (Math), to use Draw to convert it to (e.g.) a “Metafile”, to flip the graphic horizontally, and then to combine it with graphical elements (textbox or other) introducing the script.

Much better concerning everything to be communicated as “clear information” would be to use globally harmonized standards. This will require to abolish some local/regional well-loved peculiarities, among them …
I personally am ready to change my writing direction to RTL if this is necessary to prepare for a better future.
Nothing is too ugly to exclude it if it can help to make peace. Nothing is wonderful enouigh to justify insisting on it if it is incompatible with dire necessity.

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FWIW, your comments came out very patronizing and borderline insulting. Someone is asking how to do X in LibreOffice, you don’t answer by why do you want to do X then go on and question their entire culture.

The OP didn’t demand anything, you are the one belittling and lecturing them about their own needs.

Some countries teach math in Arabic, set from right to left, and this is a fact. People need to do that in LibreOffice, that is another fact. No amount of patronizing comments and talk about cultural superiority and international cooperation is going to change that.

This doesn’t look like you actually read my comments unbiasedly.
Could it be that you are entrapped in some dangerous prejudices?
… …
Thanks anyway for contributing to the development of LibreOffice. I’m not capable of joining you insofar, and I’m too old to catch up.

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I guess lecturing someone about what they should and should not do and accusing them for being nationalist for simply wanting to typeset some math using local conventions is just a neutral, unbiased, non-patronizing, non-insulting attitude.

I didn’t knowingly accuse anybody of anything, but posted some views on aspects in a lose relation. I already admitted that they were actually off-topic. Sorry.
… …
I didn’t accuse anybody of “being a nationalist”.
… …
I was accused plentifully and explicitly based on misunderstandings and tried to defend. No way. Let’s close this dispute. We obviously cannot find a language both sides can use trusting in an appropriate understanding on the other side.

@khaledhosny2: Quit the hate mongering and playing the victim. You should know better. Several valuable contributors have left this place on completely unfounded accusations of patronizing. You want more people to leave? Go right ahead.

If somebody has a crazy idea and wants to implement that, it’s not patronizing to advise them to rethink their plans, it’s being helpful.

Unless some rich people in the Arabian world are willing to pay for the translation of every book on science into Arabic, people will have to read books on science in a foreign language, most likely English, with mathematical formulas LTR. I am Dutch, and I had to read lots of English. It’s a matter of common sense to learn to read formulas in the style most widely used in the world, for sooner or later you will be exposed to them, anyway. So, you might as well start learning to read that style of formulas sooner.

All astronomers in the entire world use the names Algol, Betelgeuse, Deneb, etc. for individual stars, because Arabic astronomers were the first to give names to individual stars. It’s not superiority but priority that matters, and of course prevalence. If you want to make a difference in the world of science, publish in English. Not because that is a superior language, but because you will then be most widely read.

@anon87010807 I’m not playing victim, and you are a racist and you know it. Cut the bullshit already.

@khaledhosny2: Get lost. You should get banned for this nonsense.

@anon87010807
This is a different and -up to now rare- case where a contributor playing the “you accused me/us”-card actually contributed supposedly valuable code. He clearly is superior to me - at least insofar.
He created the solution for tdf#111705 after all.

I tip my hat!
He may decide himself concerning what topics he wants to contribute to development.

Of course there are lots of reservations, but: We should stop this quarrel.

The next version of LibreOffice (24.2) will have support for setting Math direction to right-to-left and using Arabic math symbols:

math-arabic-1.odf (7.1 KB)

tdf#134193, tdf#111705

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السلام عليكم أخ خالد …

شكراً على الرد على سؤالي …

أنت قلت أن الإضافة سوف تكون في الإصدار 24.2 ، لكن آخر إصدار 7.6.1.2، هل هناك ترقيم آخر لإصدارات LibreOffice؟

وهل خطوط الرياضيات المميزة مضمنة فيه؟

لو تعطنا تفاصيل ومميزات!

About new numbers in LibreOffice version:

And you can download if from Daily builds

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نعم، نظام ترقيم الإصدارات تغير بدء من الإصدارة القادمة، وأصبح سنة.شهر
الخط غير مضمن حاليا، لكن يمكنك استخدام خطي XITS Math وأميري فهما المستخدمان في الصورة أعلاه.

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