Please help with modifying header with page numbers for tricky document

English
#1

Hi all,

I’m sending in a short story submission and the requirements on formatting are pretty standardized and strict. The bottom line is the third page of doc must have the first header but be labeled page 2. Reason being, if you want to understand why, is the first page must be a cover letter without the header. The second page will start the story but also shouldn’t have a header. The third (and following) pages will have the header, but the number of page should start as 2, even though it’s technically the 3rd page, because the first page of story was technically page 1 of story.

I’ve done this before, but have no idea how. I don’t use word processors very often. Thanks in advance for your help!

#2

The specification you give suggests the book is structured into different parts with their own layout.

In Writer, when you meet such context, think of page styles. A page style defines the layout for book parts. In your case, you have 3 parts:

  • cover letter
  • first story page
  • rest of story pages

I assume that cover contents is rather short and won’t need more than one page. Consequently, I’ll use the automatic switching of page styles.

Create a new page style for your story first page with name Story First. Cover will use built-in First Page and story Default Page Style. Customise these page styles as follows:

  • First Page: change Next in Organizer tab to Story First; make sure there is no header nor footer
  • Story First: change Next to Default Page Style
    I suggest you enable header and footer (but leaving them blank) so that this first page has the same layout as the rest without the need to compute adjustment for margins. This way, you set the margins to the same value as in the running story pages.
  • Default Page Style: enable header and footer

After the text in the cover, add a special page break with Insert>More Breaks>Manual Break so that you can force page style to Story First and page number to 1.

Nothing special in the first story page (you leave header and footer blank).

In the second story page, you set the header as you like. Page number is insert with Insert>Field>Page Number. By default, the header is styled Header paragraph style which already has tab stops set for center and right. To have the page number centered, just type Tab before inserting the page number field.

#3

Wow thanks for taking the time to write all that. That seems pretty daunting as in not quite sure how to do some of that stuff. Let me ask - I was doing more research and someone recommended setting the first two pages as title pages then resetting page number to 2 after title pages. This put in the correct header for the third page but didn’t put the header into any subsequent pages. When I added a header to the subsequent page, it went back and added headers to the two title pages (numbering them all 2. It’s super frustrating because what I’m doing seems logical. Any ideas doing it this way? Thanks!
I should also add that the first page I want numbered has changed to first page of header and all the others are now right page/left page headers. Dont recall seeing that before and not sure if that is causing issues.

Edit: this is so frustrating, now a bunch of pages are formatted with first page headers, and they all have proper numbered headers, but the others are default and don’t. When I try to change the defaults to first page so it will number properly it doesn’t change after I hit apply. Grrrrr. I never changed those other pages to first page formatting. This whole program has just gone nuts.

#4

Setting the first page of the story a title pages does not seem logical and is semantically incorrect. When styling (or more generally using a document processor), don’t make “quirks” you’ll regret sooner than you think. You document has an internally consistent structure and a semantic meaning. Translate this structure into styles. This a rock-solid approach.

I don’t understand how you can set a header in p. 3 and this header not being repeated on subsequent pages. Unless … your document is saved .docx (M$ format, not native Writer format) and the document already incurred several editing sessions which has the effect of “individualising” pages with one page style per page, which is an unmanageable mess due to conversion between formats.

Just saw your edit. Send your document through private mail. I think it is just a matter of using an ad-hoc special page break. For private mail: click on my name then on the Message button.

#5

You need to format the first pages with the First Page and Story First page styles. Defining them isn’t enough, you need to apply them. See added example.

Sample_page_styles.odt (9,0 KB)

1 Like
#6

I swear I’m not this big an idiot ;). When I click on your name I get a small window that shows badges as leader, etc. When I click on your name on that window, I go to a profile page that has a list of your posts, replies, etc… I don’t see message anywhere. This is so embarrassing. Thanks so much for your patience. I feel like I’ve lost my mind. Never not been able to find the pm function on a message board before.

#7

Sent a PM. Reply to it. This may be simpler.

#8

You’re the best. Sent.

#9

You won’t go anywhere. Your document is .docx. It is not styled at all. The cumulative adverse effects of conversions (when opening, to internal format; on save to alien format) have damaged the structure of the document beyond repair (for example you have one Convertedx page style per page).
You have used Writer as a mechanical typewriter. Everything is styled Default Paragraph Style with direct formatting added.
I recommend you read the Writer Guide and practice a bit. I bet you have a deadline and tidying up your document may be exceed this deadline.
As long as your file is .docx, don’t expect any success. If your publisher requires .docx, this is possible with minimal formatting loss provided you work with an .odt original file. You convert to .docx only at the final step before sending to the publisher. This reduces the conversions to a single operation. And since your document is really very simple (structure-wise), you’ll have no loss.

Meanwhile, I’m sorry. There is too much work to restore the situation. You can eventually use @anon87010807 excellent demo file by pasting inside it your text as Unformatted text. Proceed in two steps: your cover letter, then the rest of the text in the following page (pages will be automatically allocated to host the novel).

In Writer, “standard” style for text is Text Body. Default Paragraph Style is the ancestor of all other styles and is used to set shared typographical attributes and layout. Never use it for any text because you’ll see strange behaviour in other paragraphs when you customise it.

#10

I don’t understand, I’ve barely made any changes. All I did was use the title page function to make the first two pages title pages. I didn’t change anything else. I never set the other pages to default, they were just that way by…default. Surely there must be some way to rectify this? I tried copy-pasting this into floris_v demo file but it wouldn’t let me change the headers. When I clicked on them but it just stayed in the general text area. What if I copy/paste this into a new file and save as ODT? I don’t see how it’s possible I screwed something up so irretrievably by barely doing anything. EDIT - Oh I see, I need to paste as unformatted. I’ll try that. Thanks for all your help.

#11

The culprit is the adoption of .docx format to store the document. Conversions have a cumulative disastrous effect. The more editing sessions, the worst your document internal structure becomes.

Effectively if you paste as usual, you copy the mess and nothing changes. Unformatted variant is available in Edit>Paste Special>Paste Unformatted Text

#12

Ok so pasting unformatted worked. Awesome. Took me like 10 seconds to reformat. Is there a way I can raise the header so it’s a little higher on the page? It’s sitting a little too close to the text. At least it looks that way. If that’s standard formatting for a header then maybe I should just keep it, but is it easy to raise it globally? Thanks for the 10th time. You guys have been unbelievably kind to help me this much.

#14

Layout for pages are controlled by page styles. I assume you’re talking about Default Page Style where there is a header. You have access to the settings with Format>Page Style when the cursor is positioned in the ad-hoc page.

#15

You can modify that space in the Paragraph style dialog box. Select the Header tab, in the Spacing box [quote from LibreOfice Help] enter the amount of space that you want to maintain between the bottom edge of the header and the top edge of the document text.[end quote].

#16

Hey floris_v,

First off thanks specifically to you for posting that example file. That was a lifesaver. I don’t see a Header tab in the Format-Paragraph dialog box (starts with indents and spacing and ends with transparency), nor do I see a Paragraph option in the Styles dropdown. Thanks.

#17

There is no Header tab on the Paragraph style dialog box. It’s on the Page style dialog box. You really need to get comfortable with the basics of working with LibreOffice or you will get nowhere. That is, you will get as far as I got after installing a Photoshop lookalike and tried to cut a selection from a picture to paste it in a blank graphic. It took me less than 5 minutes to realize that that software was not for me.

#18

ajlittoz, I also don’t see a under format I see “page” which I see a header tab. There’s autofit height and if I hit more, I can go to padding options, but not sure which I need. Also, will this do it globally or will I have to change all my pages individually? Thanks.

#19

I don’t see any paragraph option in the page styles drop down. I give up. You guys have been kind enough to help me this far.

#20

You need a friend or someone close to you who can sit with you and guide you through this.

#21

You didn’t mention your LO version. Menu wording changed a bit between 6.x and 7.x. Format>Page is the command to look for. Word Style was added to emphasise the fact that you don’t direct format but modify the page style.

Adjusting headers is split between:

  • page style where you control the global layout of the page (header heaight, distance between header area and text area, …)
  • paragraph style if you want more customisation on the header text itself (font face and size, line spacing, spacing before and after – meaningful when your header contains several paragraphs).


Don’t be ashamed for not mastering Writer. It is a very powerful tool (and thus complex to cover as many cases as possible). You should start by reading the Guide. As already told, this is not compatible with a deadline. And working under stress is never a good thing.

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