Where in LO master Endnotes are stored, and how to rearrange the position

[Bernard12]

In LO (version 7.2.3.2) master document, I can add Text, Files and Indexes. In the navigator I can rearrange their position. This works fine.

When I add Indexes like TOC, Or alphabetic Index, the index is shown in the navigator, and I can rearrange the position.
And I use Endnotes, As other indexes, like TOC, or alphabetic index have are shown in the navigator.

Example, for just a .odt document:

• Create a new .odt document
• Add the words: “LibreOffice forum”
• Menu → Insert → Footnote and endnotes → EndNote
  ** The Endnotes are generated on a new page (with the pagestyle style Endnote)
• Insert Hyperlink https://ask.libreoffice.org
  Now the reader can find the location of LibreOffice Forum.
  Example_endnotes.odt (15.8 KB)

I repeated the same but now with assigning my template

• I assigned my template: menu → File → Change current template (current document)
  The results in a document with the Name Register :
  Example_endnotes_named_as_register.odt (15.8 KB)

So the name “Register” seemed to be part of my template. But I have no idea where.

I do the same for the master document. There the Register is also automatic generated at the end of the master. But the register not visible in the navigator. I would prefer the Index as last part, after the Register. I am unable to do so, the register always stays the last paragraph.

I have read Can't insert section after endnotes - #6 by ajlittoz And Downloaded the AskLOSectionEndNoter.odt I can see it is possible. I followed the instructions in the .odm file as well in a .odt file. But I can not achieve the same results. When, inside the section, I selected “Collect at end of section” in Endnotes and click the Insert button (The Ok button is not available in my version), nothing happens.

Optionally adjust other parameters and OK

How can I move the register before the Index (or, which is the same, move the index after the register)?

[ajlittoz]

What do you call “Register”? We aren’t native English people and some specialised words need explanation. For better understanding, edit your question to attach a short sample document.

The part of the document containing endnotes is generated under Endnote page style and Writer locks this part as the very last one. You can’t move it anywhere else.

It is not shown in the Navigator Headings section because it is not a heading. It is not in the Sections section too because it is not a Writer section. You can’t even add a heading to the endnotes because Writer won’t let you do it unless you trick Writer but this needs an advanced skill with sections + styles. This same trick can be used to change the order of tables at end of document but before giving the recipe, I need to know what your “Register” is.

[ajlittoz]

Well, you have the recipe in my other answer you referenced in your question to position the endnotes at an arbitrary location in a document.

However, this does not seem to be the core of the issue. Apparently, you complain about word “Register” (which is not used to designate some typographical part of a document).

Word “Register” is written in the header of Endnote page style. You wrote it at some time. Then, according to your description, you forced a changed in the template upon which your document is based. I assume you have installed TemplateChanger extension as the menu item looks like one added by the extension.

This forced change only modifies the style dictionary (because your document already contains text, “initial” text from the template is not copied again to avoid erasing new contents).

From File>Properties, it seems that both your sample files are based on the same template Wetenschappelijk_boek_16 . Consequently, nothing visible should change.

Styles are reloaded and document text is left untouched. In particular, the header in Endnote doesn’t change and remains set to “Register”. Since “Register” is a header, it doesn’t appear either in Navigator Headings section.

I still don’t know what you want to do with “Register” but clearly it doesn’t belong in a header but to some normal text. This means you should apply the recipe to make possible to add text after the endnotes. In other words, endnotes must be located at the end of some section.

Side remark: your Default Page Style is A4 while your Endnote is 17×24 cm. Is this your intention to use two incompatible paper sizes within the same document?

[Bernard12]

I assumed the word “Register” was a kind of reserved word in LO, like TOC, Index, and Heading. But it not. So I will use the name “EndNotes” for the list of Endnotes at the end of the document. This is more clear and accurate.

I have indeed the TemplateChanger extension installed, so I can use this menu item. I would be more correct to mention this, for other readers. The “initial” text in the template is only there to assist me what option I have with the configured template, with real-live examples.

Header and Heading looks quite similar, but differ a lot. It is good you point this out again.

In theory I understand the way you want to go putting the Endnotes in a section. After the section the Index can be shown. I see with the given example this is possible. Which is good. But despite your good description I can not reproduce this results. All steps are possible to do, but without visible results. @ajlittoz you are always very accurate with your descriptions, but apparently I miss something.

I tried something else: I removed the Header and added the word “Register” with the paragraph style Contents heading which inherited from the paragraph style Index Heading. But without any effect.

The example file with the Default Page Style indeed A4 and the Endnote is 17x24 cm. This is done by mistake and not intentional.

[Bernard12]

I reread your comment over and over again. Because you are very accurate, it should be correct. At last I could solved it for a single .odt document. The main problem I had to understand your explanation in Can't insert section after endnotes You gave many detail info but I missed the overview. I will summarize how I understand the issue.

Endnotes are always on the end of a block of text in LibreOffice. Always. A block of text is mostly a .odt document. But a section is also a block of text. So I created a new section, copied the original content, with endnotes in it. And after that section new text, for me the Index, can be written. This is much less accurate than you wrote @ajlittoz but it may give the reader an overview what is happening. As said this works for me in a single .odt document.

But a master document .odm this does not work. Ctrl-A does not select all the content of the master, but only of the current sub-document.

How can this be achieved on a easy way for a master document?

[ajlittoz]

Master documents add another layer of complexity though basically they are just documents like ordinary .odt. Their additional feature is the ability to “include” (or reference without copy) ordinary .odt documents which are then seen as “atomic” (= a unit managed as a whole without action on the components) bits.

Conceptually, consider each sub-document as a single paragraph or as a huge virtual character.

This means the intrinsic structure of the sub-document is “imported” as is and can’t be modified in the master: outline paragraphs can’t be modified or tweaked, generated text can’t be changed. In particular, if sub-document contains a partial TOC, an index or endnotes, these will remain unchanged inside the sub-doc.

Now, if you want to collect all your endnotes in the master (and this is the sole possibility: you can’t segregate endnotes inside a sub-doc because a sub-doc can’t see “above itself”, the master, nor the siblings, because it requires first to go up into the master before going down into the siblings), you must create a section in the master.

The section must contain all text susceptible to have endnotes. Therefore, I think you can leave outside it the cover page, the TOC, maybe dedication, preface and other initial material. Create a section after it, type an eventual introduction (if it references/creates endnotes), insert your sub-documents. This is the critical point: sub-docs must reside in the master section.

Request the endnotes at end of the section.

After the section, generate your index. Once again, this index must be in the master, not in a sub-document, otherwise it will not be able to collect the entries.

[Bernard12]

I understand the sub-docs must be within the section. But how can this be enforced?

I named the section so I know I am in the correct section. Then I go the navigator and insert the section and insert a document with endnotes. When I open the section part, the subdoc seems to be not inside the section.

[ajlittoz]

Let’s continue on private mail.

[Bernard12]

Ok, I will do so.

[anon87010807]

@ajlittoz

The section must contain all text susceptible to have endnotes. Therefore, I think you can leave outside it the cover page, the TOC, maybe dedication, preface and other initial material. Create a section after it, type an eventual introduction (if it references/creates endnotes), insert your sub-documents. This is the critical point: sub-docs must reside in the master section.

Request the endnotes at end of the section.

Interesting. I have a problem with that - when I start a master document and insert a section to hold all inserted sub docs with endnotes, the insert mechanism doesn’t allow me to insert the sub docs within that section, it inserts them above it. Nor can I insert a section with sub docs selected. What am I doing wrong?

[ajlittoz]

@Bernard12, @anon87010807:

Apologies to both of you for creating false hopes. I got confused by other features and completely forgot restrictions about sections in master documents.

• you can’t insert a sub-doc in an existing section (Menu>Insert becomes disabled)
• you can’t turn some text into a section if it contains a sub-doc

I tried to patch contents.xml by moving an end section boundary beyond sub-doc insertion. This effectively nest the sub-doc “sections” inside the outer one but Writer loses sub-doc tracking as shown by the Master view which then only lists Text entries. And surprisingly, endnotes revert to be located at end of each sub-doc (while I had them at end of document before the patch). This seems “logical” as the sub-doc is now seen as a “common” section. And if I try to untick the Collect at end of section box in the master (there is no longer any section in the sub-doc, therefore no box to uncheck there), I crash Writer.

I submitted a request for information at tdf#149863.

UPDATE
My request for information has started a (fruitful) discussion with the developers. It appears you can insert sub-documents into sections. The procedure is not intuitive at all but “logical” once you have understood it.
But this demonstrates that moving the endnotes outside the sub-doc section is presently not possible because the endnotes are set at the first end section boundary. Since a sub-doc is in fact a section, endnotes will always be put at the end of the sub-doc.
The placement of endnotes before the index has found support from some developers. However how to implement arbitrary location is not known presently and may conflict with ODF standard.

[Bernard12]

Thank for your apologies. I have to accept this is not possible in LO, but outsiders will not understand this. They say, you just should move (in my case) the Index after the (in my case register) in LO therms the endnotes. And that should be logical indeed the best solution. This means, I suppose something like a feature request. Then it would be a kind of Index which is removable, like the current Index. And the name “endnote” will be than incorrect. An other name would be more appropriate. But thanks again for your answer. Knowing something is not possible is better then just keep trying.

[Bernard12]

I could not found a solution within LibreOffice. But the subject is important to me, so I search for a work-around outside LO. Within LO I create a pdf document and edited with a pdf-editor. I used the open-source Master pdf-editor http://code-industry.net . After rearrange the sequence, I could change the page numbers as well.

This is no real solution, but a work-around. It creates the Waterfall model - Wikipedia with I tried to prevent. LO goes very far the create a book without the need of additional layout processing. I hope this is not needed anymore in the future.