Direct formatting of list symbols?

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#11

Formatting lists is completely, totally counter-intuitive. It yook me years to understand how it works and some more to master the process. Unfortunately there are still lurking bugs which prevent to follow a rigorous method, as least as systematic as for paragraphs, characters or pages.

By chance. I selected the number, applied colour and was surprised that the change occurred on the preceding number. I then checked it was systematic and deduced the recipe. Perhaps this works because DF is applied in fact only on the paragraph mark of the target item.

You’re not the only one. A few years ago, I used to say that mastering list formatting was the most difficult challenge in Writer. I wouldn’t be as affirmative today. I’d put deterministic frame location through frame style in number one.

You’re welcome. This challenge is very interesting because it improves my skills with Writer. This is a win-win deal. You have a solution and I have higher knowledge in Writer.

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#14

This is surely a bug. Could you file a bug report?
I have filed a few bug reports during the last days, but this one is so complicated, that I wouldn’t even know where to start to explain this in a report …

That’s not good news. I was hoping to find a free MS Office alternative and thought that LibreOffice must be an even more solid product since basically the whole world is involved in developing it. But my experience is honestly terrible. There are so many bugs. I never had encountered any problems in MS Office …

#15

I must say, I got my hopes up to soon.
I actually managed to direct-format one of my list items in the manner you told me and thought this is the break-through. But then I failed on all subsequent list items …

Since you are the resident “list expert” here and seem to be interested in solving tricky puzzles, maybe you want to have a crack at my document ? I have it attached for you here.

The task that needs to be accomplished is color-formatting the second-level list ordinals like this:

  • If an item contains bold blue text, the list ordinal should be formatted in bold blue characters with black border box.
  • If an item contains bold green text, the list ordinal should be formatted in bold green characters with black border box.
  • If an item contains both bold blue AND bold green text, the list ordinal should be formatted in bold blue characters with black border box.

background info in case you are interested:
This is required so as to see right away which items are mandatory (blue) and optional (green).

Many thanks if you want to tinker.
xxxxxxx part.odt (36.1 KB)

#9

@ajlittoz :
There is one other extremely ugly solution (that doesn’t even merit this term) I have found in case direct formatting were not possible: since the numbering breaks (as mentioned above) and restarts at 1, I can manually increase the counter via list style > customize > numbering > start at. I then have to clone the list style multiple times for each possible starting point, like *mysuperlist_starts_at_2 , *mysuperlist_starts_at_3 , *mysuperlist_starts_at_4 and so on.

Of course that defeats the whole purpose of lists and might even be easier achieved through some kind of identation or tabstops …

#10

As you say this is not a solution. It is even harmful and replacing it with fully manual paragraphs (without list style applied) is probably better when you consider document edits and maintenance.

#12

If you try to break the logic of the styles sequence, you can achieve an optical workaround.
I have used three list styles and three paragraph styles. Their names end with blue, green and black respectively (in German: blau, grün, schwarz).
Black stands alone for numeric 1),2),3).
Blue and green for a),b),c) respectively.

99731 HB sublevels

99731 HB sublevels.odt (13,7 KB)

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#13

@Hrbrgr : your achievement is impressive, thanks,
but the main question in my OP was:
"how can I achieve this without interrupting the numbering ?"
In your image the numbering seems interrupted.
I need to get there:

#17

Write a function request on Bugzilla or (even better) become a programmer.

#18

@Hrbrgr : ok, so from your response I assume this is not possible with the .odt file you uploaded ?

#19

@libretist have you seen my private message?

1 Like
#21

it’s easy, but not a good layout so a chaotic:
yyyTESTESTEST_v000.odt (12.5 KB)

LibreOffice v.7.2.7.2

#22

@koyotak : thanks for your help. I couldn’t get your document to work:

  1. I selected what the document says I should select.
  2. Then I selected green color from the toolbar button.

Result: The text is green, but the list ordinal is still red as shown below:
.
image

.
I need the opposite, i.e. formatting the list ordinal.

It seems you have managed to do so in your document. Please explain how. I couldn’t reproduce it.
Thank you.

#23

@libretist
I think I have an older version of LO (v.7.2.7.2) with those special “error/fault/mistake” to outwit any formattings by listing and numbering. That “error” seems to be corrected with newer versions.

Try this, have a look on “solution .B.” with numbered listings “A 2 F_BL” and “A 2 F_RD”:
yyzTESTESTEST_v001.odt (16.3 KB)
Change never any stile directly but only the user defined formattings, herein “A 2 F_BL“ and “A 2 F_RD”. Add an other formatting into the aduld formating (hierarchically):
– “Aufzählung 2” is the grandmother
– “Aufzählung 2 Fortsetzung” is one of her child and
– “A 2 F_BL” is one of her grandchild in blue (BL).

1 Like
#24

@koyotak : thanks so much for trying to make this work.
I opened your sample file and it really seems to were successful.
When I select a different paragraph style, the list ordinal changes its color!

The problem is:

  1. I have no clue how you did this. Can you give step-by-step instructions of how to create the styles?
  2. I need to style the list ordinal only, i.e. independently from the list item text. (Unfortunately I cannot edit the OP anymore to emphasize this more precisely.) When I select the item text and choose another paragraph style (to get black item text), the entire item including item ordinal/symbol of course loses its style/formatting:

image

#25

@libretist
There exist no problem. That what you want in your case 2) is a chaotic formatting.

My hierarchic formattings are not easy! i prefer not the LO-basic formattings cause its rudimentary. i prefer my owns. What you see in my file above is only a quick demonstration.
A good typographic layout needs a very good structure you have to work before everything after you will see any first result. Thats be just as good in everything programming or construction or work.

To your case 2), ignore all the LO-style sheets. i recommend you to set all your text into standard format and allocate character to character the style you want to see without any automatic listings or numberings. Thats very easy and no unvisible LO-severe settlement will collaps your layout. On the other hand that demand much work and nobody are able to look right over that what you will present with your private stylings.

To your case 1) i will be your teacher! Which knowledge has you in typographic structure? And about LO-style sheets? And their deployments? In a scale from beginners to experts …

#26

The thread title says “direct formatting of list symbols?”.
This is what I have to accomplish.

mock screenshot:

image

I wanted to simplify the explanation and the images in the OP, because I didn’t want to over-complicate the question. But in hindsight, I should have explained exactly what I need to achieve. Unfortunately I cannot edit the OP anymore.

Many thanks for your help @koyotak .
You said “case 1)” and “case 2)” but these are are not different cases, but only 2 remarks/questions I had for you. It’s always about the same case, depicted in the image I just posted in this message.

#27

Hi @libretist

I’m back from a tiring car trip and more available to study carefully your sample file. Here are my findings:

  • for numbered lists created with a list style
    The trick of selecting the paragraph mark of the item to which you want to change number “decoration” works reliably provided there is no character style (Character style: set to None)
  • for numbered lists created with the toolbar, i.e. without an explicit list style
    Decorating the number is more difficult because you must succeed to remove the Character style: for this instance. This requires going through Format>Bullets & Numbering with the cursor in the appropriate list item. After that, selecting the paragraph mark works.

However, things become complicated with bullet lists. And I must say you are inconsistent in your sample file because half of bullet lists were created with “direct formatting” Format>Bullets & Numbering, half with * bullet list (well, there are only two bullet lists).

  • applying the trick to bullet lists (selecting paragraph mark, then direct formatting) does not work !!!
    I updated the bug report.

The only workaround I could find was to change Bullet to *, †, ‡, §, … and restart numbering on every item. Not user-friendly and does not provide a real bullet.

1 Like
#28

@ajlittoz : many thanks for your help! I am very hopeful reading that you got it to work.
I tried again and failed again. There is something I am doing wrong apparently.

Where exactly should I check if character style is set to none? When the item ordinal is selected? Or when the item’s paragraph mark is selected?
.
EDIT: It’s weird, after several attempts, I sometimes get your method to work when repeating your steps a dozen times. I don’t think I changed anything between the repeats. This way, I got at least A.3 and A.4 and A.5 formatted (in my sample file xxxxxxx part.odt above). I was never able to direct-format A.1 for example. Then I saved the document and upon reopening the document, the formatting of A.3 and A.4 and A.5 is gone. I tried to DF them again, but it doesn’t work anymore.
.
EDIT2: Out of the blue, the direct-format of A.3 and A.4 and A.5 appeared again, but I was unable to change them and when saving and re-opening the document, the DF is gone again.
.
So the bottom line is: It’s very inconsistent in my trials.

Have you tried saving and see if your results persist when reopening ?

#29

@libretist

You’re right. Something else is again at stake.


First, your (faulty) use of Shift+Enter invalidates the trick. I remind you you can very easily create an unnumbered item by hitting Enter, then Bksp which deletes the number. Your new list item is created at the same level with the same paragraph style. This does not follow your specification of eliminating the spacing between the numbered item and its “comment” or explanation. You can cope with it by attaching the list style to an ad hoc paragraph style with the required font size and other parameters, including vertical spacing (even if you’ll always disable numbering – this insures you have the same indents). Logically, this is better because you have two paragraph styles for two different semantic significance. To automate the process you can specify the Next style to be your “unnumbered” style after the standard numbered style. If you have no “comment”/explanation, you manually apply your standard numbered style.


Second, the trick effectively does not always survive the session. I have not identified the circumstances under which it is kept and when it disappears. I wonder if the presence of cross-references play a role here.

1 Like
#30

Switch off all automatism of listings and numberings, so you can write and formate everything manually.
Or change to FRAMEMAKER thats able to layout your curiosity/strange objects/matters and
much more as multiple cornered pictures, several transparent or opaque layers.

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